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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Well the tendencies aren't being misconstrued, we all see them. But is being closed minded, for example, inherently part of what it is to be a sensor or SJ? I don't think so, but it can be a byproduct.
    I don't think so. The byproduct, for any type, probably comes from Ji or Je.

    Ji can make IPs closed minded and stubborn about relinquishing their understanding of a subject.
    Je can make EJs closed minded and stubborn about understanding something new once they've determined what they know is the only valid information.
    A Pe Dom might use their Ji (Ti/Fi) to justify their understanding and keep closed minded about accepting contrary information.
    A Pi Dom might use their Je (Te/Fe) to determine that their understanding is the correct one and be closed minded about changing their minds.

    So, we ALL can be closed minded at one time or another. Just depends when and what for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us
    Now, SJ, like with NJ, or any J, allows for greater speed of making up one's mind, which I don't fully agree is the same as being close-minded.
    SJ or NJ... has nothing to do with greater speed of making up one's mind.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Being closed minded is about not accepting the abstract world of new ideas.
    My ISTP buddies are probably the closest ones who can give me a run for my money of taking theoretical approaches and turning them into reality. They just don't find the theory *interesting*, not that they do not understand, and it cannot certainly be said that they do not accept. Otherwise, they wouldn't be applying it. Right? [unless you think their application comes about by random chance]

    They accept, but, in different ways....they accept the theories when it can be made into a reality. And, they'd rather not waste time musing over the X, Y, Z of the theory, but, take it and run. For this to happen, one has to accept abstract world of new ideas. Application only can come about with acceptance.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post

    SJ or NJ... has nothing to do with greater speed of making up one's mind.
    I disagree.

  4. #54
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    if closed mindedness means to become attached to constructed theories without constantly checking for a pattern match with observed reality, then we know who is really prone to closed mindedness, dont we?
    Im assuming you are pairing N stubborness over theories with close-mindedness, your point being that both are highly resilient to outside influences, for better or worse.

    But there are differences between the two that show they are not the same. For one, N theories are usually "constructed" over a long period of time whearas close-mindedness is usually based upon learnt prejudices that are common in society, more of a gut-instinct than an opinion.

    For instance, someone who believed all drugs were bad (save alcohol) could be described as close-minded. If this person made an informed decision from personal experience, few would call them close-minded. But if they formed their opinion from all those "educational" tapes in high-school, many would call them close-minded. Hopefully, an N's theory would be based on the former.

    It is important to remember that what and what does not count as close-minded changes from person to person. And since S's are more likely to follow the norms of society, they are more likely to be perceived as close-minded by N's, who are less likely to follow said norms.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  5. #55
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

    Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.

    -----

    I think both suggestions have some merit: Maybe a misconception of what Sensing is, and maybe "prejudice" from dealing with the rest of society. And yet putting too much of the blame on "misconception of Sensing" sounds almost like an excuse. It sounds like an "easy way out" of an uncomfortable spot.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #56
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Im assuming you are pairing N stubborness over theories with close-mindedness
    nope, i was thinking a little further outside of the SN box there.

  7. #57
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    if closed mindedness means to become attached to constructed theories without constantly checking for a pattern match with observed reality, then we know who is really prone to closed mindedness, dont we?
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    nope, i was thinking a little further outside of the SN box there.
    Oh, well thats a bugger. I actually thought you made a good point. Even if I decided to argue with it.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  8. #58
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Close-mindedness is a byproduct of upbringing and to some extend sanity and self-confidence.

    We all have our own understanding of the world which we've learned through our personal experiences or what we've been explicitly taught. New information that goes counter our understanding is difficult to accept because we might have to break our old way of thinking in order to incorporate this new thing. I don't know of anybody who'll arbitrary change their way of thinking for one seemingly "trivial" piece of info that doesn't fit with everything else. Stability and being sure of oneself means a great deal for keeping sane.

    Back on topic. I think to some extend we all have a tendency to like traits that we ourself have. And if you're given an opposite pair like N vs S... well if you favor N, the natural interpretation will be that N is better than S which is supposedly its opposite. Of course the dichotomy isn't as simple as that but nobody really thinks about that...
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  9. #59
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

    Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.
    I searched, it was futile. Sorry for the redundancy.

    Why would you being grateful need to be assumed? Don't be a victim, it'll help ease the supposed victimization.

  10. #60
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

    Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.
    There are always new people joining the forums, let them discuss. I like new insights
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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