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  1. #431
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    We have some, sure. But if neither of us wants the other's way encroaching on their lifestyle or choices... well, it can be messy.
    And part of being a mature adult is being able to disagree with someone civilly.


    I suppose it's possible, but I don't think it's desirable. Why would I want to befriend and potentially benefit or find myself vulnerable to the people associated with the cause of my enemies? I have a feeling this is more an I/E thing, though. I'm fairly selective about my friends.
    The fact that you refer to these people as "enemies" tells me that you have a very immature "Us vs. Them" attitude. And I think that a lot of these people you are claiming to weed out from the friend group have probably have done the same to you before you did.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #432
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    And part of being a mature adult is being able to disagree with someone civilly.
    Intellectually, I can do that. But emotionally, it's hard to trust or value someone I disagree with. Especially if after the disagreement, they still demand that everyone comply with their way regardless of disagreement.

    So by being civil, you mean submitting to something I disagree with on the surface to keep the peace. Yes, I've done that. I hate it. I'm tired of doing it, and that's why I'm so frustrated.
    The fact that you refer to these people as "enemies" tells me that you have a very immature "Us vs. Them" attitude. And I think that a lot of these people you are claiming to weed out from the friend group have probably have done the same to you before you did.
    Well, I don't go around calling them enemies, I just sort of avoid them, or try to interact as little as possible. I'd tolerate them because I have no choice, but I'd never trust them or call them friends.

  3. #433
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Intellectually, I can do that. But emotionally, it's hard to trust someone I disagree with. Especially if after the disagreement, they still demand that everyone comply with their way regardless of disagreement.

    So by being civil, you mean submitting to something I disagree with on the surface to keep the peace. Yes, I've done that. I hate it. I'm tired of doing it, and that's why I'm so frustrated.
    I don't mean that at all. Don't put words in my mouth.


    Well, I don't go around calling them enemies, I just sort of avoid them, or try to interact as little as possible. I'd tolerate them because I have no choice, but I'd never trust them or call them friends.
    I didn't mean calling them enemies to their faces or in reference to them. I meant the fact that you even THINK about these people in those terms is a major red flag.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't mean that at all. Don't put words in my mouth.
    Well... umm... how else do I disagree civilly? All I can think of is either doing what they say regardless of how I feel about it (I often do, which is probably why I have so much pent-up resentment), or avoiding them.

    I didn't mean calling them enemies to their faces or in reference to them. I meant the fact that you even THINK about these people in those terms is a major red flag.
    So I'm supposed to respect and value them? Despite the way they treat us? Perhaps I should... but that's really, really hard to do.

  5. #435
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well... umm... how else do I disagree civilly? All I can think of is either doing what they say regardless of how I feel about it, or avoiding them.
    The best way is to have a better argument with more evidence. That's what I do on here. You may not get the other person to see the light, but it's the right way to do it. Being right is not always enough.


    So I'm supposed to respect and value them? Despite the way they treat us? Perhaps... but that's really, really hard to do.
    There's that "Us vs. Them" attitude again. You really need to get past that mentality. Having a disagreement IRL with someone who has that mentality is fucking exasperating. You don't have to have a high level of respect for someone to TREAT them respectfully in these situations.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #436
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    I agree with merc. It sounds like your problems are starting in your mentality.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  7. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The best way is to have a better argument with more evidence. That's what I do on here. You may not get the other person to see the light, but it's the right way to do it. Being right is not always enough.

    There's that "Us vs. Them" attitude again. You really need to get past that mentality. Having a disagreement IRL with someone who has that mentality is fucking exasperating. You don't have to have a high level of respect for someone to TREAT them respectfully in these situations.
    Oh! I don't tell them I disagree with them or anything like that. I just end up complying what they say regardless of how I feel about it. I'm not crazy enough to create conflict in real life. So I definitely treat them respectfully, even though I don't feel respect.

    I just resent them. A lot. And I'll take any reasonable opportunity I can get to sabotage, or otherwise avoid cooperating with them. I certainly try to keep them from knowing I feel this way.

  8. #438
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Oh! I don't tell them I disagree with them or anything like that. I just end up complying what they say regardless of how I feel about it. I'm not crazy enough to create conflict in real life. So I definitely treat them respectfully, even though I don't feel respect.

    I just resent them. A lot. And I'll take any opportunity I can get to sabotage or avoid cooperating with them.
    Then how do you expect anything to change?

    Maybe if you didn't take that stance and actually tried to explain to them your problems and work out a solution...
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  9. #439
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    After having read this diaglog between merc and athenian, I think that it's easy to say that you, Athenian, are stuck in your head, and refuse to come out. You're going into relationships with SJs like a ostrich with it's head in the ground would approach describing their surroundings, it doesn't work. You mentioned that their principals invalidate your values, please give an example of this. I honestly have never experienced this, if an SJ I'm associated with has a different belief if that topic is brought up, then we will talk about our differences and move on. It's the mature thing to do.

    Assuming that every SJ or whatever will be a terrible person because of typology pretty much defeats the purpose of it. There is no point in doing this. You're just holding yourself back and lying to yourself.

    To gain respect you must give respect, and if they don't respect you in consequence then they are just failures as human beings, a personality typing thing won't do anything to describe that.

    I really don't see the purpose of hating SJs, they aren't all terrible honestly. The only way you could say that they're all terrible is by going out and meeting every XSXJ in the world and making the same judgment on them, saying that they're terrible.

    Why are you afraid of creating conflict? Your relationships with people grow stronger when you survive conflict, especially necessary conflict. If you just go along with what people say and don't object if you don't agree with it, bad things will happen, misunderstandings will happen, etc. Why are you afraid of creating conflict? It's not the end of the world to have a disagreement with someone. You will never get your voice in if you just agree, thus making you feel unheard (like you basically feel). It's just a bad loop that you could easily fix. What's stopping you from voicing what you want to say? Why would you even think it was the best thing to do, to avoid a problem? You know that problems just get worse.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #440
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Then how do you expect anything to change?
    I don't.

    I know that the conservative-types (what type they are, most of them might not even be SJs) won't have change. Why do you think I'm so bitter?
    Maybe if you didn't take that stance and actually tried to explain to them your problems and work out a solution...
    Their "solution" is usually to tell me that I'm misguided to disagree with them. They often won't even concede that my problem is valid, and that I must just be seeing things incorrectly.

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