User Tag List

First 31394041424351 Last

Results 401 to 410 of 511

  1. #401
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinspring View Post
    Totally 110% agree with this post. I've long thought and consequently ignored most of the S-type driven "problems" people on MBTI-related forums have. I've noticed they've mostly proliferated by
    • teenagers or those dependent in some way on their sensor "persecutor"
    • those who have had a bad romantic or other intimate relationships and attribute the normal people problem stuff to a sensor-intuitive problem. There's a sadly defeatist attitude about these relationships on type forums.
    • ideological differences that people believe stem from the inability of sensors, particularly SJs, to relinquish what people believe to be dogmatic or archaic belief systems instead of once again looking to see what they are dogmatic and rabid about. Trying to beat the other person in an argument rather than trying to have meaningful discussion and cultivating an atmosphere where that can happen.
    • inability to connect in a meaningful way with other people and blaming the lack of connection on most others being sensors, instead of a possible problem stemming from self
    • rampant miscommunication and the expectation of others to psychically know what they feel, think, want, and need. This is especially apparent when people describe their ideal romantic relationships.


    I'm not saying there aren't legitimate complaints and legitimate miscommunications but they've all been lost in the tsunami of completely unrelated type bullshit. I can't help but be reminded of the saying that people say that they see but they don't, because if they did you'd see some productiveness from seeing and knowing. I read so often about the intuitive ability to see many sides to a situation, but I see no evidence of this in the way people talk about their persistence interpersonal problems they have. People would rather climb Mt. Everest butt naked than actually hammer out the root problems. It's easier to blame it on the Type and throw your hands up in the air. The same problems will follow you from relationship to relationship instead of dealing with it.

    And what makes it even sadder is that even though MBTI isn't legitimately accepted by psychologists I think it does contain the potential to at least get people primed into thinking that people are psychologically different and it's OK to be different within a healthy range of behavior. It lets people know that being introverted and extroverted isn't a defect and the same thing with the other dichotomies. But people continually piss in the well and it turns people off that could use it in a beneficial way.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #402
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinspring View Post


    If people recognized it for what it is, mommy issues, daddy issues, brother issues whatever, that would be one thing. But they ascribe it to some "Sensor" thing, and it's particularly in vogue to say it is some "SJ" thing. And as long as people are going to keep passing off their personal issues as having to do with type, then I can certainly keep challenging that. I'm not trying to get up in anybody's business, but people keep wanting to talk about their personal stuff, and then act like its off-limits.

    I'm curious what you believe to be at the heart of these issues. From this vantage point it seems strange that any of them develop in a vacuum outside of personality type differences. There are several people on this forum that have expressed a great deal of warmth for their family members. Some of them feel fondness for the difference, as I do now, while others have a better connection to friends/family members of a similar type. In any case, all the mommy, daddy, brother issues do seem to boil down to personality type clashes. It just seems to depend on what the different parties in the dynamic expect. I don't think anyone who's posted expects their personal stuff to be off-limits, but to toss these accounts out as just "personal stuff" that don't really capture what goes on between different types strikes me as a little strange. I suppose we could talk about all of this in terms of the purely hypothetical MBTI archetypes, but is there any benefit in doing this? I'd much rather acknowledge that there are differences and see if there is a way to use those differences to my advantage. I don't want to expect more from people than they are capable of or dismiss someone out of hand because I think they are incapable of more. In other words, I don't want to saddle my poor old mother with heavy philosophical debate when I can get more out of our relationship by enjoy her propensity to see the beauty in things right here. I avoid a lot of conflict by knowing she is what she is and I am what I am...the mommy issues dissipate because I know they were never mommy issues to begin with (though it may look that way to an outsider who's written off this I/ENTJ's experience with her ESFJ mother as such). We were just two people stuck together as a result of circumstance that did not understand each other, as is often the case in type conflicts.

  3. #403
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    EDIT: Merc, I don't doubt there are a lot of great ESFJs, it's just kind of a tough fit for a strong NT.

    That's so weird to me. Several of my closest friends are NT's. A lot of INT's and INF's, actually.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #404
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Totally 110% agree with this post. I've long thought and consequently ignored most of the S-type driven "problems" people on MBTI-related forums have. I've noticed they've mostly proliferated by
    • teenagers or those dependent in some way on their sensor "persecutor"
    • those who have had a bad romantic or other intimate relationships and attribute the normal people problem stuff to a sensor-intuitive problem. There's a sadly defeatist attitude about these relationships on type forums.
    • ideological differences that people believe stem from the inability of sensors, particularly SJs, to relinquish what people believe to be dogmatic or archaic belief systems instead of once again looking to see what they are dogmatic and rabid about. Trying to beat the other person in an argument rather than trying to have meaningful discussion and cultivating an atmosphere where that can happen.
    • inability to connect in a meaningful way with other people and blaming the lack of connection on most others being sensors, instead of a possible problem stemming from self
    • rampant miscommunication and the expectation of others to psychically know what they feel, think, want, and need. This is especially apparent when people describe their ideal romantic relationships.


    I'm not saying there aren't legitimate complaints and legitimate miscommunications but they've all been lost in the tsunami of completely unrelated type bullshit. I can't help but be reminded of the saying that people say that they see but they don't, because if they did you'd see some productiveness from seeing and knowing. I read so often about the intuitive ability to see many sides to a situation, but I see no evidence of this in the way people talk about their persistence interpersonal problems they have. People would rather climb Mt. Everest butt naked than actually hammer out the root problems. It's easier to blame it on the Type and throw your hands up in the air. The same problems will follow you from relationship to relationship instead of dealing with it.

    And what makes it even sadder is that even though MBTI isn't legitimately accepted by psychologists I think it does contain the potential to at least get people primed into thinking that people are psychologically different and it's OK to be different within a healthy range of behavior. It lets people know that being introverted and extroverted isn't a defect and the same thing with the other dichotomies. But people continually piss in the well and it turns people off that could use it in a beneficial way.

    I have tried to emphasize this many times. Some people ALWAYS complain about how the S's around them are so awful, never understand them, etc. They never seem to think that the problem could be mostly on their own end.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #405
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I have tried to emphasize this many times. Some people ALWAYS complain about how the S's around them are so awful, never understand them, etc. They never seem to think that the problem could be mostly on their own end.
    This probably isn't the case with experiences as minor children but the thing is parents who are deeply dysfunctional or abusive probably aren't that easy to type. There are threads on here for talking about family dysfunction or problems with same sex parents though.

    But like with my father, he tested INTJ and certainly acted like one at work and around most people, most of the time but his dysfunctions came out only in at times in his private life and were similar to examples of inferior(shadow) Se that come out under stress (there's a book called "Was that really me?"). The function that glares at you in a private sphere from a dysfunctional or mentally unstable parent may be inferior for them. jmo.

    Just thoughts that I come to more and more.

    I typed my mother ESFJ but someone else on here talked to me deeply about and made a good case that she was ENTJ operating in tertiary temptation and that what I thought was Fe was shadow Fi working through Te-Se. It made good food for thought...and made me convinced I can never know her real type since she's gone and cannot take the test.

  6. #406
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    This probably isn't the case with experiences as minor children but the thing is parents who are deeply dysfunctional or abusive probably aren't that easy to type. There are threads on here for talking about family dysfunction or problems with same sex parents though.

    But like with my father, he tested INTJ but his dysfunctions came out only in at times in his private life and were similar to examples of inferior Se that come out under stress (there's a book called "Was that really me?"). The function that glares at you in a private sphere from a dysfunctional or mentally unstable parent may be inferior for them. jmo.

    Just thoughts that I come to more and more.

    Sure, but there is no reason to think that S parents are any more dysfunctional or abusive than N parents. It's usually up to how their own parents raised them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #407
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's so weird to me. Several of my closest friends are NT's. A lot of INT's and INF's, actually.
    I forgot to mention that two of the people I spend several hours a week with, voluntarily, are ESFJs. It just wasn't a comfortable dynamic growing up. Parent/child relationships are frequently very different than those we enter into voluntarily. Parents have a way of showing their worst sides to their children (myself included of course). All of their insecurities and expectations about how things are or should be get poured into their kids, even when they try hard not to do this (Beat's post about religion/family reminded me of this). I certainly don't find fault with my mom for being the person she is, she just was difficult to grow up "under". You'll see most of my posts regarding sensors in this thread have been quite positive. As I've stated several times, many of my closest relationships have been with Ss, particularly SPs. SJs are just harder for me in close dynamics because we both have certain ways we want things done and aren't particularly good at giving up our respective points of view.

  8. #408
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Sure, but there is no reason to think that S parents are any more dysfunctional or abusive than N parents.
    I never said this.

  9. #409
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I have an ESFJ parent, and my N vs. S is about 50-50, and I had a pretty enjoyable childhood. Both of my parents are great (although they have their annoying quirks). Oddly enough, my mother has more of the traits that many on here associate with SJs, although I don't think I would type her as one.
    What traits do people seem to associate with SJs that don't actually have to do with being SJ? When I get a mental image of an SJ, a particular image comes to mind. Mostly of people holding on to beliefs without questioning them, and trying to drill them into other people's heads, demanding that the law accommodate those beliefs, and so on. Everything from social roles, to ways of doing and acting. If that's not an SJ, then what is?

    You and Kai would be the two SJs on here that I like, actually. Beat is okay, but I can't stand any of the others.

  10. #410
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I never said this.

    Oh, I know. I meant that the vast majority of people who recount these bad experiences as children are N's and they tend to type their parent/sibling/teacher as S's. Sorry I wasn't clearer.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

Similar Threads

  1. TypeC biased against sensors?
    By Oaky in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-28-2010, 12:52 AM
  2. [NT] The NT Prejudice Against Feeling
    By Synarch in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 05-03-2009, 03:42 AM
  3. [MBTItm] Question for sensors?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: 03-12-2009, 03:30 AM
  4. [ISTJ] Famous dead Sensors
    By labyrinthine in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-11-2008, 01:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO