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  1. #321
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    With all due respect, you've been here a couple of months, and I've been here since the site was started, as a spinoff of INTP Central where there was a lot of anti-S and anti-F sentiment. Since then I've seen it many, many times here--a person forms an idea about what an S is like, and finds it consistently proven by data of their own choosing. It's called confirmation bias. It's a bit more complicated than "this person is mistreating me, therefore they are S." It's more along the lines of "I don't get along with or like this person, and because of that I notice that they seem to me to be narrow-minded and short-sighted, so they are probably S. In turn, Ss are narrow-minded and short-sighted." And so on, in loops. The flipside of it happens here and at INTPC all the time: "You're so cool, are you sure you're an S?"
    Well, I guess I figured that was poor enough reasoning that no one worth listening to would actually use it. I realize you've been here much longer than I have, but I don't mean to defend such poor reasoning. Though I've never actually browsed INTP central, I imagine a forum dedicated entirely to INTPs would probably be more hateful toward Sensors than one that's designed to be open to all types. Maybe not; just a guess.

    Most of the S people floating around here seem to be pretty cool. As I said, haven't been here that long but most of the anti-S complaining I've seen has been about some general S characteristic that frequently doesn't apply to most of the regular posters here who are Sensors (the very fact that they care about and understand MBTI suggests that they'll be a little more open-minded about differences in others.)

    Personally, the people here that I've had the most friction with have all been Ns. I understand that it can be hard not to take generalized speech about one's group personally, but there may also be some validity to some of the "I hate when Ss do this..." complaints, just as there is in most of other type- or preference-specific complaints. Most stereotypes do come from somewhere. Not all ENTPs are argumentative jerks, but enough of us act that way often enough that we get the reputation for it, and that's not necessarily a bad thing in all cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You must realize that what you are suggesting here actually is protecting Ns from criticism for criticizing Ss. It all comes back on itself. If you really are talking about letting people criticize others, you cannot come back and say that people disagreeing is "protecting certain type from criticism." See what I mean?
    It's also protecting Ss from criticism for criticizing Ns. It certainly does come back on itself.

    Point being, criticism is not inherently bad and can sometimes be helpful. It depends on the wording and the context. Note that I haven't actually demanded that any of your posts be censored or forcibly altered, even the ones I don't like.

    I don't think any type deserves protection from open criticism. Specific people do deserve protection from harassment directed at them personally, but I don't see any problem with threads started to complain about Ns or Ss or ISTs or EFJs or any other type or letter combination--as long we understand that types are limited labels which cannot fully describe any real people, and as such type-related generalizations cannot ever describe all members of a given type or preference. The dialogue and communication that occurs as a result (when the participants are serious about being productive) is the way that typology helps us all to recognize our own unconscious biases and grow as people. You have a right to complain about it if you want to, and I have a right to tell you why I think your complaints are misguided. As long as we're staying relatively civil and on point, none of us deserves any protection from criticism at all.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #322
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Out of curiosity, what are the statistics here in terms of numbers of S, N, E, I, T, F, P, and J? I'm not sure if it is easy to look up or not. Early on in the forum when there were so few Sensors around, and plenty of negative comments about Sensors, I remember the few that showed up would get chased off. Because of that i started a few threads in support of Sensors, because it seemed to be in the spirit of this forum to be inclusive of all types. It was a place where you can get the diversity of various viewpoints. I agree that special protection of some particular type could be undesirable, but my understanding of the P, J, F, T, E, and I bashing is that each category is well represented so there is that sense of plenty of people on both sides of the debate. This was not originally the case for Sensors, but I'm not sure if it has changed significantly. It also seemed like a natural attempt to recreate the polarization that necessitated the creation of this forum in the first place. At any rate, if someone is free to make criticisms, the next person is free to criticize the criticism, and the next one to criticize the criticism of the criticism, and then start all over. It does make sense to distinguish between the forum policies - the actions that admins/mods make verses the overall opinions people care to express. As long as people aren't getting banned for disliking Sensors, it seems fair enough to test the ideas against the opinions of others whatever those may be.
    Well, I did this post a while ago. The info is outdated now, but should give a rough idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Toonia, I'll ask the tech guys if there's an easy way to spit out some numbers like that. I seem to recall file cabinet did that once, so maybe he or spirilis can do it again.
    Costrin likes raw data. *unsubtle hint*
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  3. #323
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well, I guess I figured that was poor enough reasoning that no one worth listening to would actually use it. I realize you've been here much longer than I have, but I don't mean to defend such poor reasoning. Though I've never actually browsed INTP central, I imagine a forum dedicated entirely to INTPs would probably be more hateful toward Sensors than one that's designed to be open to all types. Maybe not; just a guess.

    Most of the S people floating around here seem to be pretty cool. As I said, haven't been here that long but most of the anti-S complaining I've seen has been about some general S characteristic that frequently doesn't apply to most of the regular posters here who are Sensors (the very fact that they care about and understand MBTI suggests that they'll be a little more open-minded about differences in others.)

    Personally, the people here that I've had the most friction with have all been Ns. I understand that it can be hard not to take generalized speech about one's group personally, but there may also be some validity to some of the "I hate when Ss do this..." complaints, just as there is in most of other type- or preference-specific complaints. Most stereotypes do come from somewhere. Not all ENTPs are argumentative jerks, but enough of us act that way often enough that we get the reputation for it, and that's not necessarily a bad thing in all cases.




    It's also protecting Ss from criticism for criticizing Ns. It certainly does come back on itself.

    Point being, criticism is not inherently bad and can sometimes be helpful. It depends on the wording and the context. Note that I haven't actually demanded that any of your posts be censored or forcibly altered, even the ones I don't like.

    I don't think any type deserves protection from open criticism. Specific people do deserve protection from harassment directed at them personally, but I don't see any problem with threads started to complain about Ns or Ss or ISTs or EFJs or any other type or letter combination--as long we understand that types are limited labels which cannot fully describe any real people, and as such type-related generalizations cannot ever describe all members of a given type or preference. The dialogue and communication that occurs as a result (when the participants are serious about being productive) is the way that typology helps us all to recognize our own unconscious biases and grow as people. You have a right to complain about it if you want to, and I have a right to tell you why I think your complaints are misguided. As long as we're staying relatively civil and on point, none of us deserves any protection from criticism at all.

    I have an uneasy relationship with MBTI in general because I take everyone on an individual basis. One can make generalizations that are true, but most of the complaint threads here are just stupid. I always try to point out the inconsistencies.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Imost of the complaint threads here are just stupid. I always try to point out the inconsistencies.
    Not a thing wrong with that.

  5. #325
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I have an uneasy relationship with MBTI in general because I take everyone on an individual basis. One can make generalizations that are true, but most of the complaint threads here are just stupid. I always try to point out the inconsistencies.
    This is me, too. I know it's maybe a little sketchy for someone who is skeptical of MBTI to be helping to run a typology forum. I'm very interested in it, clearly (I've been on these forums since aught five and was intrigued before that for several years) I just don't think it is the end-all of explaining human behavior.
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  6. #326
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I haven't even really seen real prejudice against sensors, it's more of a bias really, bred partly from the fact that Ns (and mistyped Ss) are a big majority, so most things are slanted towards an N perspective. This helps perpetuate an oversimplified and generally poor understanding of type.

  7. #327
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict here.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #328
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm starting to think of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict here.
    Yea, you're close

  9. #329
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I haven't even really seen real prejudice against sensors, it's more of a bias really, bred partly from the fact that Ns (and mistyped Ss) are a big majority, so most things are slanted towards an N perspective. This helps perpetuate an oversimplified and generally poor understanding of type.
    It might have something to do with Ns being more likely to be interested in an abstract categorization system. MBTI does kind of just sound like random letter voodoo to anyone that hasn't spent much time studying it, and Ss by definition are less likely to care about something that has so little immediate practical use.

    Of course, it would help all of us gain more perspective if we had more Ss around here in general. Seems like ESTJ and ESTP are in the most short supply here. Recruit more friends?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #330
    Riva
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    what some people(intuitive types) forget is that their Ni is useless without their Se.

    best ex - ENTJ

    an ENTJ has lots and lots of good ideas thank to their Ni(i think). but their Se is the one that makes them implement their Good ideas. Ni Te makes them good planners.

    BUT Se is what makes them implement Their plans. thus making them "Field marshals".

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...lay-entjs.html

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