Prejudice against Sensors?

[Lauren Ashley]

Are 2 wrongs supposed to make a right?

I don't know. Maybe. But it happens anyway.

 

[ajblaise]

But, the bolded part is what I'm getting at....how much of this vent is due to some misconstrued understanding of sensing (or even types) and how much is really *ahem* grounded in the reality of what sensors are?

Well the tendencies aren't being misconstrued, we all see them. But is being closed minded, for example, inherently part of what it is to be a sensor or SJ? I don't think so, but it can be a byproduct.

 

[Qre:us]

People are not consistent in their actions in real life and their written prejudices/stereotypes uttered from an anonymous online alias.

I would wager that many of those who have bought into "sensor hatred" in a thread or two would never divulge as such in real life, when in the presence of one.

It seems to me that it is alot easier to drop a rant online than to project dislike/disdain in person. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but in the vast experiences I have lived and the troves of people I have met, most have done a good job of maintaining appropriate civility.

Thoughts?

I think there's this underlying phenomenon of misconceptions (that may have started off as jokes/sarcasm) being played out, and confirmation of misconceptions by like-others (i.e., other intuits), turns the misconceptions to 'reality', for all intents and purposes on these forums.

Which leads to the propagation of such ideas about sensors.

In this forum, there are some clear prejudice regarding sensors - they can't see beyond, they can't imagine as well, they can't theorize as well.
And, with enough time, and support, these become truths on this forum. And, once a label sticks, that stigma is hard to shake off.

IRL, because we don't walk around theorizing day and night about intuition versus sensing, we don't have thoughts on the differences of both in the forefront of our mind, hence, we see less divide IRL.

 

[Halla74]

In real life, no one knows what the hell a "sensor" is.

Pardon me for being unclear, I meant that for a given (intuitive) person that posts on this forum, that if they had voiced (typed) disregard for sensors, that same person would not be likely to act or speak out against a person in real life who is apparently of a sensing disposition.

So, my comment assumes that the person MUST know what a sensor is. Does that make sense? (no pun intended)

 

[zarc]

On the forum, Intuition is held in high regard, and there's many instances of looking down on Sensors. I understand that the forum has way more intuits than sensors, but, why this prejudice? What about sensing (and its typological defintion) that makes it seem 'less superior' to intuition (as per the commentaries on this board)?

Nothing about Sensing is inferior, neither its Introverted nor Extraverted processes. Nothing should make it seem inferior either but people have this horrible habit of misunderstanding what things mean and then perpetuating that misunderstanding. Yea, I know.

The forum has more Ns? lol People take type and other’s type and people who’s type they think they know for granted due to some rudimentary understanding. There are probably a lot of mistyped people and people who've been mistyped by them from the whole gamut N S F T J P Z.

These people who mostly mock the supposedly S/SJ folk feel misunderstood and they place blame on their lack of cohesion with the masses (the SJ ofc), so they super glue their inferiority complexes* onto their heads for all to witness. Capitals N, NF, NT. Occasionally you’ll see NP, NJ.

When in reality, MOST people feel misunderstood at one time or another. Including ye behated Ss. Ssssss. Ssssss. errr Sssorry, haven’t slept two nights now.

If it’s not disdain of S or SJ, then it’s of the supposedly ice hearted NTs or the disgustingly gooey NFs and so on. (-- when there also exists ice cold NFs and warm NTs but we mostly ignore that) Ban together against a supposed threat or group who seems to be opposite from you and then the next day ban against thy enemy’s enemy.

I’m guessing it’s not really N vs S in real life or type, at all. It’s mostly people pitted against ignorance or intolerance. And most people just assume they'd happen to be S.

But an ignorant and intolerant person is just that. They can be S or N. A person who is well balanced from any type will seem wonderful and tolerant. The difference between a well balanced ESTJ and an unbalanced INFJ. You’d sooner think the ESTJ was more understanding and emotionally stable. And approachable.

Look at well known people who've been typed Ns, who succeed in an "SJ" dominated society and are appreciated or praised for their efforts by the masses. By the masses. Masses supposedly constituted by SJs, right? (There's no validating information about type division anyway, just estimates at best. But heeeey, people just believe what they wanna. It's easier to justify their pond of an existence against the big ocean of Life).

My best friend is an ESTP. Most people she encounters think she’s weird. She thinks I’m weird. Blackcat said it. Weird is an opinion, more so an interpretation. People mostly apply weird to what they don’t understand or what they find interesting but don’t recognise within themselves.

* not completely serious. But really, some of you do have it glued to your foreheads. Look in the mirror, the N will be staring back at you...

 

[nanook]

its also because of competence, which must be understood as context sensitive, but is usually felt as an inherent attribute of his or her highness.

most people, including intuitives, -as individuals- got fairly big egos and overstep their natural area of insight/competence, but sensors are doing that in a group-trance, not because they are sensors, but because they are majority. they don't get much opposition and everyone around them speaks the same language. it's ethnocentric.

anyone afraid of grasshoppers?

 

[Halla74]

Do you mean that YOU in particular haven't experienced this?

Yes, my comments were limited to my personal experience.

If that's the case then a couple of reasons might be that you seem to be a cool person in general, and also ESTPs just seem to be easygoing and easy to get along with.

Maybe so, I am defintely a people person. I am a helpful, creative problem solver with a positive attitude, and the people I usually work with are usually in the middle of some kind of cluster&*$^ and happy to be getting help.

I know some intuitives (who aren't into MBTI) label sensors as "closed minded" or "slow." I also know/see sensors (who aren't into MBTI) label intuitives as "weird." I think people who buy into the whole "different is bad thing" are closed minded themselves, S/N preference doesn't really matter that much. You just have to be able to get along with people, and have some social common sense. If you see that someone is different, take the time to realize that you can learn a good bit from that person.

Hey, stereotypes are bullshit. If you limit others based on them don't bitch when your life is limited as such. I grew up an Army brat, moving every 2 years, and have lived all over and met thousands of people. I learned very early on, decades before I learned about MBTI that stereotypes are useless accepted societal prejudices. So, maybe the issue at hand here is people being too caught up with stereotypes?

I don't have time for steretypes. I extend to everyone I meet courteousy, and give all an equal opportunity to prove themselves worthwhile or otherwise. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt upfront, but don't needlessly expose myself to backstabbing. I'm way too busy to waste time on socially retarded grade school practices.

 

[Qre:us]

Well the tendencies aren't being misconstrued, we all see them. But is being closed minded, for example, inherently part of what it is to be a sensor or SJ? I don't think so, but it can be a byproduct.

I don't even think being close-minded is a byproduct of sensing. The same could be said by a Sensor to an Intuitive: "How can you be so close-minded to all that is going on around you, you dumb ignorant fuck?"

Now, SJ, like with NJ, or any J, allows for greater speed of making up one's mind, which I don't fully agree is the same as being close-minded.

 

[BlackCat]

I don't even think being close-minded is a byproduct of sensing. The same could be said by a Sensor to an Intuitive: "How can you be so close-minded to all that is going on around you, you dumb ignorant fuck?"

Exactly. So everyone is closed minded to someone in some way, intuitives to sensors and sensors to intuitives. It's because of the vastly different ways of thinking. How can you argue against this?

EDIT: I forgot to clarify that I meant that this is where the stereotyping and discrimination comes from.

 

[ajblaise]

I don't even think being close-minded is a byproduct of sensing. The same could be said by a Sensor to an Intuitive: "How can you be so close-minded to all that is going on around you, you dumb ignorant fuck?"

Now, SJ, like with NJ, or any J, allows for greater speed of making up one's mind, which I don't fully agree is the same as being close-minded.

I don't think a sensor could say that about an intuitive in that sense. Being closed minded is about not accepting the abstract world of new ideas. It's not about obliviousness to the here-and-now world. Maybe "closed-bodied" would be more accurate.

 

[zarc]

Well the tendencies aren't being misconstrued, we all see them. But is being closed minded, for example, inherently part of what it is to be a sensor or SJ? I don't think so, but it can be a byproduct.

I don't think so. The byproduct, for any type, probably comes from Ji or Je.

Ji can make IPs closed minded and stubborn about relinquishing their understanding of a subject.
Je can make EJs closed minded and stubborn about understanding something new once they've determined what they know is the only valid information.
A Pe Dom might use their Ji (Ti/Fi) to justify their understanding and keep closed minded about accepting contrary information.
A Pi Dom might use their Je (Te/Fe) to determine that their understanding is the correct one and be closed minded about changing their minds.

So, we ALL can be closed minded at one time or another. Just depends when and what for.

Now, SJ, like with NJ, or any J, allows for greater speed of making up one's mind, which I don't fully agree is the same as being close-minded.

SJ or NJ... has nothing to do with greater speed of making up one's mind.

 

[Qre:us]

Being closed minded is about not accepting the abstract world of new ideas.

My ISTP buddies are probably the closest ones who can give me a run for my money of taking theoretical approaches and turning them into reality. They just don't find the theory *interesting*, not that they do not understand, and it cannot certainly be said that they do not accept. Otherwise, they wouldn't be applying it. Right? [unless you think their application comes about by random chance]

They accept, but, in different ways....they accept the theories when it can be made into a reality. And, they'd rather not waste time musing over the X, Y, Z of the theory, but, take it and run. For this to happen, one has to accept abstract world of new ideas. Application only can come about with acceptance.

 

[Qre:us]

SJ or NJ... has nothing to do with greater speed of making up one's mind.

I disagree.

 

[Eruca]

if closed mindedness means to become attached to constructed theories without constantly checking for a pattern match with observed reality, then we know who is really prone to closed mindedness, dont we?

Im assuming you are pairing N stubborness over theories with close-mindedness, your point being that both are highly resilient to outside influences, for better or worse.

But there are differences between the two that show they are not the same. For one, N theories are usually "constructed" over a long period of time whearas close-mindedness is usually based upon learnt prejudices that are common in society, more of a gut-instinct than an opinion.

For instance, someone who believed all drugs were bad (save alcohol) could be described as close-minded. If this person made an informed decision from personal experience, few would call them close-minded. But if they formed their opinion from all those "educational" tapes in high-school, many would call them close-minded. Hopefully, an N's theory would be based on the former.

It is important to remember that what and what does not count as close-minded changes from person to person. And since S's are more likely to follow the norms of society, they are more likely to be perceived as close-minded by N's, who are less likely to follow said norms.

 

[Cimarron]

There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.

-----

I think both suggestions have some merit: Maybe a misconception of what Sensing is, and maybe "prejudice" from dealing with the rest of society. And yet putting too much of the blame on "misconception of Sensing" sounds almost like an excuse. It sounds like an "easy way out" of an uncomfortable spot.

 

[nanook]

Im assuming you are pairing N stubborness over theories with close-mindedness

nope, i was thinking a little further outside of the SN box there.

 

[Eruca]

if closed mindedness means to become attached to constructed theories without constantly checking for a pattern match with observed reality, then we know who is really prone to closed mindedness, dont we?

nope, i was thinking a little further outside of the SN box there.

Oh, well thats a bugger. I actually thought you made a good point. Even if I decided to argue with it.

 

[nightning]

Close-mindedness is a byproduct of upbringing and to some extend sanity and self-confidence.

We all have our own understanding of the world which we've learned through our personal experiences or what we've been explicitly taught. New information that goes counter our understanding is difficult to accept because we might have to break our old way of thinking in order to incorporate this new thing. I don't know of anybody who'll arbitrary change their way of thinking for one seemingly "trivial" piece of info that doesn't fit with everything else. Stability and being sure of oneself means a great deal for keeping sane.

Back on topic. I think to some extend we all have a tendency to like traits that we ourself have. And if you're given an opposite pair like N vs S... well if you favor N, the natural interpretation will be that N is better than S which is supposedly its opposite. Of course the dichotomy isn't as simple as that but nobody really thinks about that...

 

[Qre:us]

There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.

I searched, it was futile. Sorry for the redundancy.

Why would you being grateful need to be assumed? Don't be a victim, it'll help ease the supposed victimization.

 

[entropie]

There are already two similar threads on this topic. Most people on the forum have at least heard about this "phenomenon" by now.

Of course I don't mean to be ungrateful, just kind of confused about the need for another one.

There are always new people joining the forums, let them discuss. I like new insights