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  1. #231
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I think it's just frustration about life out in the big offline world where S is valued over N. Most complaints that I see about S are mostly about S not understanding and not valuing N. I guess we're not allowed to complain about the intolerance of S because it's wrong for us to be intolerant intolerance of us.
    It would be inaccurate to say that sensors are intolerant of intuitives. Some are, true, but many are not. People who don't understand or value intuition are called assholes or shortsighted, not sensors.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #232
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    They appeal to the subconscious of a S majority world. Subsconscious appeal is always stronger. It's not really about the N against the world in these situations that makes it interesting----It's the struggle of the subconscious person against the conscious one in the driver's seat, that's what makes it so appealing to mass audiences. I think this is why so many protagnoists are N as well.
    So what would appeal to the subconscious of the iNtuitive?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #233
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    So what would appeal to the subconscious of the iNtuitive?
    I would imagine movies about strong, misunderstood S types fighting against some N type world. But it has to be laid out in compelling drama so that disbelief can be suspended, anything spoken frankly without compelling reason spoils the effect and weakens the sentiment, pulls one back into the conscious mind.

  4. #234
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I'm with the school of thought that we don't use one function in isolation when evaluating a situation, that parsing out which function is the culprit can get tricky.
    Probably so, unless you actually speak with the person and find out what internal values are the reasoning behind whatever opinion.

    You're right that an S-type person could have better N than an N-type. A brilliant ESTP is probably better at all of his functions than a mentally retarded ENTP.

    But again, look at the posts on this thread. It's no coincidence that lots of Ns have a definite communication gap with Ss in general. This doesn't mean it's impossible for an S person to exercise brilliant iNtuition, just that most of them don't exercise on it a high enough level to relate well to strongly N-type people, and vice versa. Ns just feel left out a lot of the time because we are less common than Ss, not because we think our preferred method of data-gathering is inherently better than theirs.

    Like I was saying earlier, it's all about averages. The feelings of being ostracized, not fitting in, etc. in the real world might very well be due to S vs. N differences, even if some Ss have better iNtuition than some Ns. I'm sure the inverse is also true because intelligence is a variable here, too.

    Even without labelling specific functions as the culprits behind particular situations, we can still get enough information so as to be useful by directly interviewing a person regarding his functional preferences. We may not be able to say, "He's acting this way in situation x because of function y", but we can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that, given appropriate self-descriptions, he tends to prefer either Sensing or iNtuition more often than the other...and that's all MBTI really seeks to do.

    It's four independent variables about personal preferences in data gathering and decision making. It doesn't need more proof than that because, as I said before, all it really states on its own is the existence of those four preference scales.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #235
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Out in the real nitty gritty world I see far, far more appreciation for S and more approbation for being N. It's okay to be genius and N if you can sell an invention, but most jobs want S skills. Run of the mill N just means you're a hard to understand pain in the arse who loses their car keys a lot and occassionally says something noteworthy that makes people laugh. That's about it.
    Sure, that's what you feel. But does it really reflect the world? And primarily the S:N divide? What tangible evidence would support your view?

    (Not health, not friendships, not bullying, not job performance, not income, not relationship satisfaction. They all support Ns being "preferred" in the real world, if anything at all. As full disclaimer, I'm not claiming causation, I'm saying that I see no evidence of Ns being maligned at any age, any level or in any condition.)

  6. #236
    heart on fire
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    ^ I'll never believe N as a function is "preferred" in the working world, I mean ALL the working world, not just certain select positions. Maybe genius level NT for certain jobs.

    But go ahead and post all your statistics if you want to and I will look them over. Maybe I'll change my mind.

  7. #237
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    On the forum, Intuition is held in high regard, and there's many instances of looking down on Sensors. I understand that the forum has way more intuits than sensors, but, why this prejudice? What about sensing (and its typological defintion) that makes it seem 'less superior' to intuition (as per the commentaries on this board)?
    It's not all intuitives.
    This same issues seems to come up time after time...

  8. #238
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    ^ I'll never believe N as a function is "preferred" in the working world, I mean ALL the working world, not just certain select positions. Maybe genius level NT for certain jobs.

    But go ahead and post all your statistics if you want to and I will look them over. Maybe I'll change my mind.
    Except when I worked as a filler in a supermarket, where my ESTJ superior didn't appreciate the fact that I wanted to organize one row of products in a "different" way, it always seemed to me like N was quite appreciated in most positions I've been especially when you can use it to fill in gaps in information, something usually essential in the workplace
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #239
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I don't fully comprehend why there is such a debate about all this. Yes, there are less Ns IRL and, yes, this puts us at a disadvantage but so what? How could Ns boast about being all special and different if they were all common-place and understood? I have no dislike or prejudice against Ss. I might like my way best but I can manage to go about life without hating on everyone else for being different to me. There is very likely to be a prejudice around here, but I don't see the need to aggravate others over it, guys. Way too much bitching and complaining going on around here. :steam:

    Also it seems that people here seem to think that Ss can't be 'soulful', spiritual or deep, and are therefore inferior because of it. I know many sensors that are just as 'soulful' as intuitors. I have a ISFP friend who has a child-like amazement at the world and can veer off mid-conversation because she saw some pretty bird fly by. Her soulful dreaminess simply comes from a wonder at the here and now rather than from some ideas in her head. It is only a nuance in the expression of worldly contemplation.

  10. #240
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    intuition is held high regard in things veyond common knowledge, where experience is the only teacher. For instance like fighting in a war, gaining experience and reuse that experience into the war again. We can use napoleon as an example. some people just know hjow to fight wars without anyone teaching them.


    It is also held high regard in art, problem solving, and book writing and where knowledge demands application in real life.
    I don't really believe in intuition anyway, even though i scored high as an intuitive. I think intuitives think more about long term things as per day to day basis.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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