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  1. #191
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm not threatened by your knowledge, and I see now that you're trying to bait an emotional reaction out of me. I am actually reading through that wiki article at the moment, for my edification.
    GOOD BOY! Here's a chocolate cookie!

    I don't agree that you can't generalize information about a person back onto himself. If I tell you that I like chocolate cake, chocolate cookies, and chocolate brownies, can you reasonably infer that I probably like chocolate eclair?
    Yes, but, we're talking about chocolate here, not cognitive processes. The mind is a complex thing. Which is my point in directing you to stay strictly within the limitations of definitions used in survey research, esp. those that try to quantify socio and/or psychological phenomena. Generalizability in such cases is a very tricky matter because you're trying to predict what a person will do/think by what he's done/thought before, but, unlike chocolate, it's on matters that are not even concrete - such as intuition versus sensing. To be able to parse out whether one is using intuition versus sensing, and generalizing to other situations, raises a heck of a lot more issues than predicting if you are vanilla or chocolate kinda guy.


    You are right that some confirmation bias can cause problems...hence the imperfection of the system. But if MBTI didn't have some kind of repeatable use in terms of observations about the behavior of others, why would any of us be here on this forum discussing it? Why would we be interested in it at all? Why aren't we all also posting on a bunch of astrology forums?
    You could try an astrology forum, no one is stopping you.


    (And/or produce an amusing emotional reaction for you to laugh at.)
    I promise to never laugh at you. I'm a lady, I only giggle.

    Well, here you go, if it's what you wanted:

    Apparently I was wrong about the technical definition of a generalization. My apologies.
    Um...thanks.

  2. #192
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah I get that, I can read an entire page or few pages whilst retaining zero of the information before noticing and snapping out of it.
    I do that too.

  3. #193
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You have the capacity to, but you prefer not to and give up "when mistakes start popping up". If you really wanted to, and applied yourself from a young age your Se could easily be better than an Se dom that has not developed/refined it in the same way.

    I have always taken MBTI to be about preference rather than ability/capacity, and I'm fairly sure that's who it was meant to be used.
    Well it's definitely not a conscious decision to give up. But yeah, with practice I could sure increase my capacity for it. It helps if there is something in the outside environment that is causing adrenaline to rise. Then I'm super focused on it.

  4. #194
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You have the capacity to, but you prefer not to and give up "when mistakes start popping up". If you really wanted to, and applied yourself from a young age your Se could easily be better than an Se dom that has not developed/refined it in the same way.
    I remember trying at a young age to pay attention to my surroundings and details. At least where I grew up, having such abilities were really important. I've partially succeeded but whenever I'm not hypervigilant about it, which is not so rare, I make stupid mistakes like address a letter to myself

  5. #195
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I think Qre:us and simulatedworld should have some hot, steamy, love/hate monkey sex!!!

    What a lovely way for them to temporarily make nice-nice, doncha think?

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #196
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I think Qre:us and simulatedworld should have some hot, steamy, love/hate monkey sex!!!

    What a lovely way for them to temporarily make nice-nice, doncha think?


    If only he bends over without speaking too much. Grunts are allowed.

  7. #197
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    If only he bends over without speaking too much. Grunts are allowed.
    LOLLLLLLL!!!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #198
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    What a lovely way for them to temporarily make nice-nice, doncha think?
    Only if there are pictures and/or video.

    </joking>
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  9. #199
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Yes, but, we're talking about chocolate here, not cognitive processes. The mind is a complex thing. Which is my point in directing you to stay strictly within the limitations of definitions used in survey research, esp. those that try to quantify socio and/or psychological phenomena. Generalizability in such cases is a very tricky matter because you're trying to predict what a person will do/think by what he's done/thought before, but, unlike chocolate, it's on matters that are not even concrete - such as intuition versus sensing. To be able to parse out whether one is using intuition versus sensing, and generalizing to other situations, raises a heck of a lot more issues than predicting if you are vanilla or chocolate kinda guy.
    Does my personal experience in predicting the behavior of certain people based on such generalizations not actually matter? Why is "he's done this most of the time in the past" not a good indicator that he'll probably do it the next time that situation comes up?

    It's not a small sample size, either--my personal relations with just about everyone I know have improved since I started studying MBTI, because I have a much better understanding of their motivations and value systems than I used to.

    I think there's a slight misunderstanding here, too, at the part where you talk about being able to parse out whether one is using iNtuition or Sensing--

    I don't think that's actually what I'm trying to do. My interest in MBTI is based solely on predictability of behavioral patterns, and I use MBTI simply as an arbitrary categorization system. If I observe repeated behavior x in a person, and I attribute it to Si, for instance--I see what you mean in that it might actually be due to Fe, or some other function, or some phenomenon totally unrelated to/unexplained by MBTI.

    But, it still doesn't damage the added predictability I get about that person's behavior from categorizing it that way--the end result seems the same, no matter what arbitrary labels we place on the motivations for predictable behavior.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #200
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I think there's a slight misunderstanding here, too, at the part where you talk about being able to parse out whether one is using iNtuition or Sensing--

    I don't think that's actually what I'm trying to do. My interest in MBTI is based solely on predictability of behavioral patterns, and I use MBTI simply as an arbitrary categorization system. If I observe repeated behavior x in a person, and I attribute it to Si, for instance--I see what you mean in that it might actually be due to Fe, or some other function, or some phenomenon totally unrelated to/unexplained by MBTI.
    Yup, this is kinda what I'm getting at. You can be seeing a person using a MIX of functions. Or, a function that they feel is most beneficial to a situation.

    As well, another point of why it is very assumptive to have stereotypes based on such categories as intuition/sensing- For example, we can't fully know whether those who self-identify themselves as a sensor doesn't really have the capacity for intuition. They can be more intuitive than a person who self-identifies themselves as an intuit. Not because each of these people have labeled themselves wrong, but, because it is only a commentary that is self-contained. Meaning, they have the capacity to intuit but they rely more on sensing, which makes no commentary on their level of intuition in comparison to another. Because the other, who relies primarily on intuition may have his/her ceiling level of intuition be less than the person who primarily relies on sensing (but still has the capacity for intuition).

    Which brings us back nicely to the topic of this thread and why such prejudice against sensors is kinda non-sensical.

    Hence,

    Does my personal experience in predicting the behavior of certain people based on such generalizations not actually matter? Why is "he's done this most of the time in the past" not a good indicator that he'll probably do it the next time that situation comes up?

    It's not a small sample size, either--my personal relations with just about everyone I know have improved since I started studying MBTI, because I have a much better understanding of their motivations and value systems than I used to.
    But, it still doesn't damage the added predictability I get about that person's behavior from categorizing it that way--the end result seems the same, no matter what arbitrary labels we place on the motivations for predictable behavior.

    Is all very good to do, and I agree, quite useful, but, we must contain whatever predictions we make about a person to themselves. Which makes any kind of comparisons between sensors and intuits redundant.

    Only to the level of sensing and intuition within one individual can we go, beyond that we play a dangerous game of assumptions.

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