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  1. #181
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    A sensor has the same capacity as an intuitive to retain and learn existing or new information. Their preference is what makes them different, capacity is irrelevant.
    of course...didn't in any way intend to imply otherwise..
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #182
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    i must be desensitized having been married to in INTJ for 11 years but I didn't find his post that bad.

    frustration due to points not getting across usually lead to these types of posts. that and ENTP's aren't known for being soft spoken. ;P
    Good point, and he is arguing with one of his own kind, so I'm sure no feelings are being hurt, just intellectual egos.

    Fine, I give up, let them draw blood, I'll watch and enjoy what transpires.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #183
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    A sensor has the same capacity as an intuitive to retain and learn existing or new information. Their preference is what makes them different, capacity is irrelevant.
    I don't know, I sure don't have the capacity to pay all my attention to the here-and-now for long. I can for a little while, but then mistakes start popping up.

  4. #184
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I don't know, I sure don't have the capacity to pay all my attention to the here-and-now for long. I can for a little while, but then mistakes start popping up.
    you're right...i don't either...because i have hard time just reading text w/o thinking of a bunch of related things and getting lost in it...and then forget where i am and then i can't access the information correctly because i can't remember how much of it came from me or the book...ahh...it's embarrassing....much better if it's something i really care about though...and something i'm interested in applying.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #185
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Minor is giving yourself too much credit. It's a major point. As it's simplest understanding: There's a reason why you can't generalize whatever information you get out of a person, BACK on to themselves. It's circular and introduces bias. Such as those inherent in momentary time sampling.



    Minor, tiny, small, he wailed, begged with repetition,
    (please stop picking on me for this, please, please, please, can't you see it's so small that you should ignore, ignore it please, for the love of god)

    Are you threatened by other's knowledge? That's not very ENTP of you. Oh wait, that might be a 'generalization' on my part.
    I don't agree that you can't generalize information about a person back onto himself. If I tell you that I like chocolate cake, chocolate cookies, and chocolate brownies, can you reasonably infer that I probably like chocolate eclair?

    Sure; you might be wrong, but most people would find this suggestive of the idea that I probably like other foods containing chocolate.

    You are right that some confirmation bias can cause problems...hence the imperfection of the system. But if MBTI didn't have some kind of repeatable use in terms of observations about the behavior of others, why would any of us be here on this forum discussing it? Why would we be interested in it at all? Why aren't we all also posting on a bunch of astrology forums?

    I'm not threatened by your knowledge, and I see now that you're trying to bait an emotional reaction out of me. I am actually reading through that wiki article at the moment, for my edification.

    I still don't think "the concept you're describing, valid though it may be, isn't technically called a generalization in formal statistical theory" is all that important, here. I mean, thanks for pointing it out and all, but it sounds as if you're more concerned with needling me over this minor discrepancy than with responding conceptually, because you think I'm so deathly terrified of being wrong that it will bring my entire view on this concept crashing down in flames. (And/or produce an amusing emotional reaction for you to laugh at.)

    Well, here you go, if it's what you wanted:

    Apparently I was wrong about the technical definition of a generalization. My apologies.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #186
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I've yet to come across any information that 70-75% of people *test* as S, just that it's assumed people are. If you have a link or a source, please show me. Seriously.
    Estimated Frequencies of Types - CAPT.org

    It's between 65% and 75%, FWIW. People normally refer to it as 75% because it reached popular culture with Keirsey and his ilk.

    The funniest thing about all this is that I've had the discussion about the "poor old introverts who are so misunderstood and have to live in an E's world". Course, that was until it became more common knowledge that they are actually 50:50. SO much for that excuse, so I guess we are stuck on being N. Which is sad, considering how much life favors Ns over Ss. Whatever.

    --

    Re: Generalizations

    MBTI generalizes because it's built on an unvalidated theory, hence the model that is is forced into is not validated, as far as I am concerned. The instrument in and of itself is considered valid and semi-reliable in so much as it has the constructs to make it so, "sorter" stuff aside. So in this case, while I tend to agree with Qre:us, the Simulated and Qre:us can be talking about entirely separate things (in the technical sense.)

  7. #187
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post

    Re: Generalizations

    MBTI generalizes because it's built on an unvalidated theory, hence the model that is is forced into is not validated, as far as I am concerned. The instrument in and of itself is considered valid and semi-reliable in so much as it has the constructs to make it so, "sorter" stuff aside. So in this case, while I tend to agree with Qre:us, the Simulated and Qre:us can be talking about entirely separate things (in the technical sense.)
    Agreed; thanks for getting the point. Hint: It wasn't about the technical definition of the word generalization.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #188
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    you're right...i don't either...because i have hard time just reading text w/o thinking of a bunch of related things and getting lost in it...and then forget where i am and then i can't access the information correctly because i can't remember how much of it came from me or the book...ahh...it's embarrassing....much better if it's something i really care about though...and something i'm interested in applying.
    Yeah I get that, I can read an entire page or few pages whilst retaining zero of the information before noticing and snapping out of it. It's more of a problem for me when I'm not paying attention to my surroundings and I trip/stub/hit/bump into something. I have the scars to prove it.

  9. #189
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Last edited by PeaceBaby; 03-10-2009 at 02:35 PM. Reason: changed my smilie

  10. #190
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I don't know, I sure don't have the capacity to pay all my attention to the here-and-now for long. I can for a little while, but then mistakes start popping up.
    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    you're right...i don't either...because i have hard time just reading text w/o thinking of a bunch of related things and getting lost in it...and then forget where i am and then i can't access the information correctly because i can't remember how much of it came from me or the book...ahh...it's embarrassing....much better if it's something i really care about though...and something i'm interested in applying.
    You have the capacity to, but you prefer not to and give up "when mistakes start popping up". If you really wanted to, and applied yourself from a young age your Se could easily be better than an Se dom that has not developed/refined it in the same way.

    I have always taken MBTI to be about preference rather than ability/capacity, and I'm fairly sure that's how it was meant to be used.

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