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  1. #171

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    The reason there is a bias on the forum is simply because there are ten times as many N's here. And ten times as many posts.

    People are using a simple heuristic to think about the two functions.
    intuition = cerebral
    sensing = physical

    And from there equating cerebral with mental skill and physical with physical skill.
    Somebody might say that there are all levels of intelligence within each type but I'm not talking about what exists in actuality I'm simply talking about the heuristic that a lot of people here are using.

    It's not only on the net that there is a bias towards mental skill. Physical skill has been devalued in modern society.

    So it's no wonder the people who are using this way of thinking about intuition think they are Gods gift.
    Last edited by wolfy; 03-14-2009 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #172
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    The questions themselves are flawed and inherently biased towards N, which lead people to make errors due to lack of understanding and association. See Quinlan below. I used to come up INTJ a few times before I had any further understanding of MBTI.
    If the questions are biased toward N, why do 70-75% of people still test as xSxx?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #173
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    well a sensor still has great capacity to retain information though. the difference is just that you will be learning existing ideas rather than going off in tangents and creating new ones from them...right? i mean you're going to apply your knowledge to things you know or have experienced...where i might be more prone to invent a different way of doing it...right?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #174
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Great, link me to a long wiki article and hope I don't bother reading it, then claim I'm ignorant/defeated when I don't respond.

    By now, I'm quite sure that you understood my point, despite any possible errors in technical terminology. Apologies for my lack of background in statistics, but all of my conceptual points have been solid. If what I've been explaining is not actually called a "generalization" in stat lingo, then congrats, you got me on that minor point.

    But, anyone who understands that word in common usage will understand exactly why I used it and exactly what I meant. It's cute that you're flaunting your statistics knowledge (or, at least, your ability to link to wiki articles containing statistics knowledge), but you're arguing such a tiny point of semantics that I don't even care anymore.

    It's still obvious that a system which declares only four things about a person and attempts to construct a psychological profile based on answering 70 questions is generalizing (you can replace that word with whatever equivalent word doesn't throw a bee in your bonnet about precise, esoteric terminology.)

    It's also obvious that any potential validity in such a system must stem from the fact that the data used to generalize about a given person's internal motivations is provided by the person himself--because no one knows you better than you know you. Way to try and derail the conversation by whining about semantics, but you haven't done anything to disprove the root concepts behind what I'm saying.

    And you wonder why anti-S bias abounds. Concepts, not memorized terms, my friend.
    Holy balls, man!!!

    :horor:

    I can't disagree with any of your points, here, but the way in which you go about delivering them is definitely cocky and flat-out mean.

    Getting in an argument with you would probably lead me to .

    You can still assert your points while being a bit more, hmm, tender, I guess.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  5. #175
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    well a sensor still has great capacity to retain information though. the difference is just that you will be learning existing ideas rather than going off in tangents and creating new ones from them...right? i mean you're going to apply your knowledge to things you know or have experienced...where i might be more prone to invent a different way of doing it...right?
    Right, the key is that you're more prone to doing it that way...not that you never do it the tried-and-true way. It's just so ridiculous to me that anyone expects some kind of double blind study to prove MBTI; all you need is a basic understanding of the four variables and an ability to observe those preferences in others.

    In reality, all MBTI is doing is creating a mental storehouse of behavioral data on others, making guesses at the motivations for it, and then using those guesses to attempt to predict future behaviors in those specific people. The better you know someone, the more accurately you can do this--MBTI types are just arbitrary labels used entirely for categorization purposes. They're starting points, nothing more, and they shouldn't be interpreted rigidly.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #176
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Great, link me to a long wiki article and hope I don't bother reading it, then claim I'm ignorant/defeated when I don't respond.
    Lame counter. Do BETTER! At least my Ne isn't faulty enough to glean a page and within seconds pick up at least one or two holes.

    Are you a sensor posing as an intuit?

    Just cuz I'm nice like that, here's a shorter recap to the two main types of generalizability:
    External Validity

    By now, I'm quite sure that you understood my point, despite any possible errors in technical terminology. Apologies for my lack of background in statistics, but all of my conceptual points have been solid. If what I've been explaining is not actually called a "generalization" in stat lingo, then congrats, you got me on that minor point.
    Minor is giving yourself too much credit. It's a major point. As it's simplest understanding: There's a reason why you can't generalize whatever information you get out of a person, BACK on to themselves. It's circular and introduces bias. Such as those inherent in momentary time sampling.

    But, anyone who understands that word in common usage will understand exactly why I used it and exactly what I meant. It's cute that you're flaunting your statistics knowledge (or, at least, your ability to link to wiki articles containing statistics knowledge), but you're arguing such a tiny point of semantics that I don't even care anymore.
    Minor, tiny, small, he wailed, begged with repetition,
    (please stop picking on me for this, please, please, please, can't you see it's so small that you should ignore, ignore it please, for the love of god)

    Are you threatened by other's knowledge? That's not very ENTP of you. Oh wait, that might be a 'generalization' on my part.

    And you wonder why anti-S bias abounds. Concepts, not memorized terms, my friend.
    You got me. That darn S dominant predisposition of mine rears its ugly head. Sigh. You're so good at these 'generalizations', I'm sorry I ever doubted you.

  7. #177
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    well a sensor still has great capacity to retain information though. the difference is just that you will be learning existing ideas rather than going off in tangents and creating new ones from them...right? i mean you're going to apply your knowledge to things you know or have experienced...where i might be more prone to invent a different way of doing it...right?
    A sensor has the same capacity as an intuitive to retain and learn existing or new information. Their preference is what makes them different, capacity is irrelevant.

  8. #178
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    So we all agree there is a bias against sensors here, especially SJs. But I'll say that the sensors on this forum get treated very well and are usually well liked, at least it seems that way. Maybe it would be a different story if there were more of them here.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    If the questions are biased toward N, why do 70-75% of people still test as xSxx?
    Cuz I haven't slept in two days and I'm now lazy. I wrote this earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc
    There's no validating information about type division anyway, just estimates at best.
    I've yet to come across any information that 70-75% of people *test* as S, just that it's assumed people are. If you have a link or a source, please show me. Seriously.

  10. #180
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Holy balls, man!!!

    :horor:

    I can't disagree with any of your points, here, but the way in which you go about delivering them is definitely cocky and flat-out mean.

    Getting in an argument with you would probably lead me to .

    You can still assert your points while being a bit more, hmm, tender, I guess.

    i must be desensitized having been married to in INTJ for 11 years but I didn't find his post that bad.

    frustration due to points not getting across usually lead to these types of posts. that and ENTP's aren't known for being soft spoken. they're also usually good debaters.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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