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  1. #131
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I didn't deny that this forum has an obvious pro-N bias, as much as you seem to wish I did.

    I try not to use Sensing against people, but I am only human and I can't deny my own biases. For that I am truly sorry.

    The idea that there's no such thing as a person who prefers abstract generalities to concrete details is ridiculous. "N" and "S" are only arbitrary labels applied to real perceptual thinking styles, but the concepts that they represent are very real. (Not that I expect a meaningful response from Nadir or anyone else, here.)

    If being openly iNtuitive would get me literally covered in tar and feathers, I would shut up about it. I think it's smarter to be quiet about your beliefs when the consequences for stating them reach a certain point of severity.

    If you've read any of my posts you've probably also heard me complain about the negative aspects of INTPs, INFPs, ENFPs, INTJs and even ENTPs ourselves. You can pretend all you want that I automatically attribute all perceived negative personality traits to Sensing, but I'm well aware that every type has flaws and problems and I make no attempt at hiding my own.

    In fact, my real life disagreements with people stem just as much from J vs. P as they do from S vs. N. I tend to feel a little more comfortable around ESFP than ENFJ, but I guess you didn't bother finding that out before launching into a blanket dismissal of all my views on this topic.

    Oh, and for the blue guy--

    Of course my disagreements with ESFJ mom are a result of perceptual differences on both ends. If you have any more lovely words to cram down my throat, save them please. The point, which you've missed with flying colors, was that while I acknowledge the difference in these perceptual styles and attempt to use them to explain some disagreements, my ESFJ mother thinks such perceptual differences are lies that I made up to avoid responsibility. I see her perspective and she doesn't see mine; that's where most of the anti-SJ bigotry comes from, get it?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #132
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    WTF??? Please tell me I smell bullshit, or are you serious?
    Hah! Alliteration.... Stupid sensors! Seems to be the most common prejudiced comment about sensors.

    If you're smart -> N
    If you're dumb -> S

    Funny how 90% of us think we're better than average...
    I guess most of us ought to be Ss afterall...
    Oh wait... S is SENSING... We ought to be able to sense that we're wrong...
    I guess Ns are the dumb ones after all.

    Stupid iNtuitives! Too bad it doesn't sound as nice.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  3. #133
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    WTF??? Please tell me I smell bullshit, or are you serious?
    He's being facetious.

  4. #134
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I didn't deny that this forum has an obvious pro-N bias, as much as you seem to wish I did.
    To whom is this directed? I didn't see anyone suggest such a thing.


    I try not to use Sensing against people, but I am only human and I can't deny my own biases. For that I am truly sorry.
    Acknowledging that is great. Acknowledging that but not trying at least to stem the tide of it does NOTHING.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #135
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    WTF??? Please tell me I smell bullshit, or are you serious?
    Sorry if I was misunderstood.. I'm saying that intuitives see a stupid person and wrongly badge them as a sensor. I am not saying that sensors are stupid people (or at least, any more stupid than anyone else).

  6. #136
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    ...Funny how 90% of us think we're better than average...
    Average when? I've never aspired to be just under the bell curve. Jesus, people! I've never in my life given so much thought to the "S vs. N" shit! Can't we all just get along?!?!?!


  7. #137
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    To whom is this directed? I didn't see anyone suggest such a thing.




    Acknowledging that is great. Acknowledging that but not trying at least to stem the tide of it does NOTHING.

    I do try. In fact, believe it or not, I've become a more tolerant person since studying MBTI. I consider most people to be far more rational than I used to; I understand now that their value systems are fundamentally different from mine.

    I think, again, the problem here is a result of overzealous assumptions about the accuracy of MBTI labels. Nadir's cute little "there is no such thing as an iNtuitive" comment is the best example of this thus far: s/he assumes that, since the type labels can't be applied universally to everyone, they must automatically have no validity.

    I'm getting a little tired of having to explain that generalizations still have merit, as long as their inherent limitations are understood. The fact that MBTI doesn't work accurately for EVERYONE doesn't mean that it can't provide some useful insight into ANYONE. Seriously, if we don't use generalizations which fail on some occasions, we're left with hardly any useful descriptive terminology at all.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #138
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Surely you don't expect to hear inconsistent complains on an MBTI forum.

    Think about a rant about an ISFJ that's a total space cadet. First thing you'll do is question whether the person has been typed correctly.

    As I said previously, we understand the world based on our learned framework of how stuff is suppose to work. Throw something contrary to it and our minds will try to redirect it to something that does fit the system. Or else we completely ignore it and it's not important.
    That's true. Some atypicalness is definitely accepted, but it can only contradict the framework of MBTI for so long until people start to question their type.

    But, there is a lot of mistyping going on. So questioning someone's type isn't always unfounded.

  9. #139
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    A further factor in the mix here.. is that prejudice against sensors, is prejudice against one's own type.

    We all sense, we all use intuition. We just have preferences as to which we believe we are best at and/or prefer to use. But dismissing someone for "sensing" is quite ridiclous. The dismisser would quickly die if they could not use sensing functions.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld
    I'm sure it's worse for me than for others, being that I test 100% N,
    I've found it amusing that you've kept referring to tests as though to strengthen your argument that you are an N.

    Tests have no validity over one's type. Tests, by themselves, prove nothing. Nothing. No self-respecting NT would believe in the validity of an instrument which has no assurance beyond a give-or-take 70% measured success rate nor for a system which is not even scientifically proven. The system isn't perfect, it's still being understood and adapted to, and we're all along for the ride should we choose to board.

    No one is 100% anything. lol If you were 100% N, I'd suspect the rest of your body were on life support and you were locked up in a psychiatric ward due to incoherent ramblings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    We all sense, we all use intuition. We just have preferences as to which we believe we are best at and/or prefer to use. But dismissing someone for "sensing" is quite ridiclous. The dismisser would quickly die if they could not use sensing functions.
    Exactly.

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