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  1. #101
    Member MoneyJungle's Avatar
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    Any system you come up with to classify people will inevitably include bigotry. I see it towards SJ types all of the time.

  2. #102
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    The difficulty is the horrid bias against sensors in the minds of those - Isabel Briggs-Myers and so on, who formulated MBTI. She described sensing functions in an inferior way.. and the message stuck.

  3. #103
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I am mocked by Sensing friends, family and co-workers in real life constantly for not being attuned to my physical surroundings and the realistic details of the here and now. And since 70-75% of people are Sensors, this is perfectly acceptable in common practice. "LOL look at the stupid NP that can't remember to tie his shoes or put gas in his car."

    And that's perfectly okay, because most people really do find that to be stupid. Yet when I mock someone for lacking iNtuitive abilities, now suddenly I'm an asshole. Why would you expect anyone to understand that shit? Making fun of people for not grasping abstract intuitive systems, wow, what a fucking dick!
    That whole post of yours - love your passionate expression!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    On the other hand, I got a chance to run a little experiment when I changed from INTP to ISTP; a few others here are not what type they actually are/test as, and a few other things.
    Agree with this - type is a label to proportions that can't be measured in an exact way. I think some ppl WANT to be a certain type, and they've taken the test enough times they can "get" that type as their result.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    In any case, there is a clear pattern of prejudice, meaning that people change their attitudes depending on the little characters you have next to the name.
    Agree with this too I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    It's quite a strange bittersweet feeling to be an SJ on this forum. You can palpate the hate that's for sure and that makes me want to cry baby Jesus tears because I like many of the Ns.
    Don't cry - many of us like you SJ's you know. Even if you are sometimes ... a tad focussed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    However, there's also something curiously interesting and fascinating about being labeled "normal" and being on a forum full of people who claim to be so "different". It's sort of like being in that movie "Shaun of the Dead", there's only a few of us SJs and the zombie Ns just want to eat us. It's great. I don't know about the rest of you but I run through the forum sections with a shovel in hand.
    Just don't haul your shovel over this-a-way LOL! Although I thought that Shaun seemed like an NF to me ...

  4. #104
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The difficulty is the horrid bias against sensors in the minds of those - Isabel Briggs-Myers and so on, who formulated MBTI. She described sensing functions in an inferior way.. and the message stuck.
    I know, responding to your own post can make you blind.. but anyway.

    The second thing I wanted to add is that people who believe themselves intuitive, attach the things they don't like to the badge sensor. This is especially true of other people, and is largely (and simply) down to confirmation bias.

    This is how it works :

    Step 1 : Intuitive thinks intuition is "great" having read how wonderful it sounds, how it explains why they don't fit in, or feel normal.

    Step 2 : Intuitive attaches negative connotations to the idea of "sensor". Any thing they don't like is badged as "sensory"

    Step 3 : Intuitive meets someone they don't like, and badges them as a "sensor". This is because they believe sensors suck due to the attachment of negativity in step 2.

    Step 4: The cycle repeats, as more and more negativity is heaped on people who's type they simply don't know, but who are badged as sensors. This works especially well for intuitives who are in a minority and can blame disliking a multitude of "normal" people as being the intuitive v sensor divide.

    If only they *really* knew the types of the people they like and dislike, it could and probably would make a huge difference.

  5. #105
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Just don't haul your shovel over this-a-way LOL!
    Nevar!

  6. #106
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I have a guess as to why this is, aside from what's already been said--

    This place is kind of an escape for many iNtuitives. Since we're a minority in the real world (about 25-30% of the population), we constantly have to live and work in the Sensory world, which is not our natural playing field.
    Agreed.

    I am mocked by Sensing friends, family and co-workers in real life constantly for not being attuned to my physical surroundings and the realistic details of the here and now. And since 70-75% of people are Sensors, this is perfectly acceptable in common practice. "LOL look at the stupid NP that can't remember to tie his shoes or put gas in his car."
    That's sad.

    And that's perfectly okay, because most people really do find that to be stupid. Yet when I mock someone for lacking iNtuitive abilities, now suddenly I'm an asshole. Why would you expect anyone to understand that shit? Making fun of people for not grasping abstract intuitive systems, wow, what a fucking dick!
    So, either you're being sarcastic with the italicized 'perfectly okay' or you really do believe it. I bet on the former. If that is the case, and, thus, it's truly not okay for the mean sensors to be how they are to you, how then do you rationalize doing the same thing back? What box then do you have to stand on to complain about what's been done to you?

    And without fail, the only people that understand what this is like are other Ns. We don't want to live in the real, tactile, Sensing world most of the time, but we have to, and we're tired of getting shit for not understanding it as well, so we gather here to talk shit about you. That's pretty much it.
    I may be weird like this, but, I like relating on the level of understanding if it helps lift *my attributes* up, not when it puts another's down. That assumes my attributes aren't enough to make a commentary on in isolation, but that I need the devaluing of the opposite attributes, to find any kind of 'positive' about my own (it is a mock positive then).

  7. #107
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I know, responding to your own post can make you blind.. but anyway.

    The second thing I wanted to add is that people who believe themselves intuitive, attach the things they don't like to the badge sensor. This is especially true of other people, and is largely (and simply) down to confirmation bias.

    This is how it works :

    Step 1 : Intuitive thinks intuition is "great" having read how wonderful it sounds, how it explains why they don't fit in, or feel normal.

    Step 2 : Intuitive attaches negative connotations to the idea of "sensor". Any thing they don't like is badged as "sensory"

    Step 3 : Intuitive meets someone they don't like, and badges them as a "sensor". This is because they believe sensors suck due to the attachment of negativity in step 2.

    Step 4: The cycle repeats, as more and more negativity is heaped on people who's type they simply don't know, but who are badged as sensors. This works especially well for intuitives who are in a minority and can blame disliking a multitude of "normal" people as being the intuitive v sensor divide.

    If only they *really* knew the types of the people they like and dislike, it could and probably would make a huge difference.
    The things they don't like about some sensor tendencies were in their head before they knew about MBTI. It just puts a label on it which allows for the murky thoughts to be organized.

  8. #108
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    See, now that DOES sound like a victim complex. It's not an inferiority complex, but you are describing this phenomenon on here as if it were a GOOD thing, when it is clearly not.

    That being said, I like being super EJ and 50/50 S vs. N. It seems to confuse some people (online and IRL) greatly, and there are the exact kind of people I like to tweak, i.e., the people who are so convinced that they are "open-minded" that they are actually small-minded jerks.
    Victim complex, my ass. I'm not describing it as a good thing. Prejudice is shitty, but it's a fact of life, and iNtuitives do often band together for just the reasons I described. It's no coincidence that 90%+ of the close friends and romantic interests I've had throughout my life are N types. I'm sure it's worse for me than for others, being that I test 100% N, but the fact that you refuse to accept the reality of what I described is very telling of your own biases.

    I've been trying to explain MBTI and some possible reasons for our disagreements to my ESFJ mother for years, and it's only slowly starting to sink in. (ESTJ older sister is even worse; if I ever try to use anything like MBTI to explain perceptual differences between us, she just openly mocks me. And no one that I know is worse about making patronizing lectures about how I need plans for my life. You'd think she's my damned mother.) Mom genuinely believes that things like occasionally forgetting to pick up a shirt off the floor are intentional attacks on her feelings, and that my MBTI explanations are pure bullshit. "Stop with the letters!" she says. "Any normal person would do [x stereotypical SJ thing]!" And that's just the problem--since my mental processes are less common, people who don't experience them don't tend to believe I'm telling the truth about them. You can see why it's a nice escape to find a community populated mostly by other N types who understand exactly where I'm coming from here.

    I can't say I'm surprised that you'd interpret it as some kind of fabricated excuse to shirk responsibilities. Rest assured that, however bad the anti-S bias is here, the anti-N (and especially anti-NP) bias in the real world is much, much worse. Cry me a fucking river.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #109
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    On the forum, Intuition is held in high regard, and there's many instances of looking down on Sensors. I understand that the forum has way more intuits than sensors, but, why this prejudice? What about sensing (and its typological defintion) that makes it seem 'less superior' to intuition (as per the commentaries on this board)?
    And to this ... I think that much of the bias comes from particular periods in one's life stage. I personally think learning about MBTI too "early" can have a detrimental effect to learning how to congruently deal with other people. You can't just "blame" everything on those 4 little letters.

    And sure, it feels frustrating to be in the minority. I totally get that. But you still have to learn to get along in the world, and manners on the forum are no exception.

    Anyone who thinks they are "better" just because of their 4 little letters are misinterpreting the intention of the whole system.

  10. #110
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    I'd have to say I like all you guys, regardless of type, because I get different angles on things, which I then incorporate into my overall understandings of stuff. And believe it or not, my experiences in the forum are helping me with my relationships IRL (you wouldn't believe how long it takes me to figure those acronyms out -- but that's 'cause I'm a SENSOR, right? Ha)

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