S and N in real life

[Jeffster]

I am in close relationship with an isfp and I wonder whether it satisfies him if I only talk about things that I did, that we want to do together, that he did or that I did. This sounds a bit boring to me. Do you think this is enough talk for an S-Person? By the way I have my N-talks with other people, so I don't miss out there. Still sometimes I wonder what a satisfying talk would look like to an ISFP? But I guess from your above statement I am just projecting my own idea of an conservation. So he does not actually need other topics.

Well, you probably should ask him about that, don't just go off what I say. But, anyway the "N" topics can be entertaining to me, even if I'm not actually interested in the topic itself, it can still be fun to hear about and sometimes participate in.

 

[Qre:us]

The cat smells green.

The dude is young, and, oh so fresh. Mos Def.

 

[Unique]

The thing is, when the "crash" comes (if it ever does) it will not affect an SP in the same way it might affect a J type. By almost never using rigid plans we very quickly learn how to adapt and work our way around problems in the immediate situation. SPs are adaptable and tactical, we can step past a lot of problems that would have other types scrambling for plan B. Sure every now and then we get blindsided by something huge, but those are usually the kind of things that no amount of planning will save you from.

wow excellent post

Anyway I know a few Ns IRL and they are good at coming up with random stuff that has nothing to do with the current situation... its quite entertaining!

 

[Jeffster]

The cat smells green.

Reminds me of this.

 

[Halla74]

The thing is, when the "crash" comes (if it ever does) it will not affect an SP in the same way it might affect a J type. By almost never using rigid plans we very quickly learn how to adapt and work our way around problems in the immediate situation. SPs are adaptable and tactical, we can step past a lot of problems that would have other types scrambling for plan B. Sure every now and then we get blindsided by something huge, but those are usually the kind of things that no amount of planning will save you from.

Awesome post. OK, I want to add one little point here from my recent research (i.e. self discovery). Part of my most recent MBTI test was a 94 page personality report. Much of it was kind of canned reference information in support of the MBTI material tested on, but it did bring an interesting point which I think is relevant in your car crash example, Quinlan.

The report literally mentioned a car crash as an example of how an INTROVERT and EXTROVERT are affected differently by the same event. Apparently the EXTROVERT's brain immediately shuts down and basically represses the trauma of the crash as it is happening, and therefor is OK with asking for the keys once sutured up; while the INTROVERT's brain remembers each and every second of the crash in frame by frame sequence, and is able to recall these events as such with frightening detail, thus allowing I's to be more effected by traumatic events than their E counterparts.

BUT, you bring an interesting point, Quinlan, in that the SP types very well do gain some amount of crisis mitigation in the hear and now due to their sensor/perceiver dispositions. This ability can in theory then be available to an ISPJ/ISPT as well as a ESTP/ESFP, thus making it a trait mutually exclusive of extroversion/introversion.

So then by far, the ESTPs are the MOST capable of dealing with a car crash as they have the "E" repression of trauma available to them, as well as the SP ability to logically maneuver through an unexpected crisi in the here and now.

Good stuff, Bro!

 

[MrME]

My take:

N is about pattern recognition, information organization, and system building. It has the ability to deconstruct data and then draw connections to other data based upon the traits (objective or subjective) that are revealed upon deconstruction. So, a banana will, in a way, be linked to every yellow thing I have stored in my memory. It will also be linked to every kind of fruit. Anything, er ... phallic ... Anything sweet-tasting. Etc. Etc.

Mind you this is just a simple example, as these connections are made unconsciously and are much more far-reaching in their scope. So, the concept of a banana is probably connected to many, many other concepts that I would never consciously associate them with. I tend to call my intuition "The Map," because it is essentially a map of every experience I've ever had in my life.

So, at a given time I can be sensing or I can be intuiting (as we all can). Since I have a really strong N, though, I tend to be intuiting much more frequently and with better accuracy than a sensor would. And since my sensing function isn't very strong, I will generally miss more details about my environment than a sensor would, I don't have as direct a connection with the concrete world around me. However, my intuition can take that relatively incomplete data, draw connections between all the gathered information, and form a "whole picture" for the situation, many times accurate ... sometimes not so much.

I could see how a sensor would see an N in the middle of intuiting and think they're just spacing out. There is a certain disconnect from the material world, it's true. I have the ability to run on "auto-pilot" really, REALLY well while intuiting. For example, I can prepare my entire breakfast -- 2 eggs, sunny-side up, toast, bacon, maybe some cereal -- completely on auto-pilot, while also intuiting about whatever subject, and my breakfast will almost always turn out near-perfect regardless.

"Auto-pilot," though, is only useful in certain learned situations, and can actually be very bad in others.

 

[wildcat]

In my experience, N tends to manifest best when establishing unusual connections between unrelated values.

The cat smells green.

Initially, the statement doesn't make sense as a cat cannot inherently smell "green". When you dig a little deeper into the complexity of what "green" could entail, the N dynamic becomes easier to visualize.

Green:

Envy?
Broccoli?
Money?
St. Patrick's Day?

"Green" transforms from a statement that seeks to identify color into a generalized terminology that could theoretically encapsulate whatever imaginative pulp one could logically tether to "green".

Eventually, observation becomes less about ascertaining absolutes and more about exploring possibility. (Maybe that's the NP v. NJ divide as well...).

Hope this helps.

As far as the Irish cats are concerned, green inevitably spells for St. Patrick's Day.
There is an awful throng in Dublin and in Cork, that day.
Cats are sensitive and shy creatures.

 

[MrME]

The downside to Ni is that sometimes the pull to intuit is so strong, it's like a veil goes down around you and you can focus only on what you're thinking about. This can be problematic, say, if you're talking to somebody and suddenly intuition grabs your attention. It can be dangerous if you're, say, crossing a street.

I bus to work, and I have headphones to listen to. I purposely drown out the world while I'm on the bus so that I can think about my writing and encourage my intuition to help piece story ideas together. Sometimes when I start intuiting ideas, even the music I'm listening to will completely fade away. I imagine I have a completely wide-eyed look on my face, too. A few minutes later I'll snap out of it and may not even realize it ever happened. Then I'll think, "How did I not hear three entire songs?" and realize that the only memory I have of the last 15 minutes were the story ideas.

That's an extreme example, but it happens. Some of the stupid things I've done while in the throes of Ni, let's see, something recent ... I dumped an entire pot of just-cooked spaghetti noodles into the sink without first grabbing the colander.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Here is one post about my Ni for those who did not see it

 

[MrME]

Here is one post about my Ni for those who did not see it

I can't say I fully grasped everything you said in your post, Antisocial. I think I have a basic idea of what you're saying, though.

I've always had a pretty good understanding of myself and my own values. My values have changed considerably over the years, which has affected how I relate to the rest of the world. To some degree, in that way my personality has changed. I've never really had an identity crisis since high school, though.

 

[Lightyear]

I have the ability to run on "auto-pilot" really, REALLY well while intuiting. For example, I can prepare my entire breakfast -- 2 eggs, sunny-side up, toast, bacon, maybe some cereal -- completely on auto-pilot, while also intuiting about whatever subject, and my breakfast will almost always turn out near-perfect regardless.

"Auto-pilot," though, is only useful in certain learned situations, and can actually be very bad in others.

I can relate very well to the "auto-pilot" thing, I actually really love doing "dumb" manual tasks like washing up or hoovering etc because they give me the opportunity to just space out and think.

Also I am wonderng about the "auto-pilot" thing, if I must I can go on "small-talk auto-pilot" while not being focussed on the present at all but just responding mechanically, thinking about something completely different. To me the sensor thing of just living in the present moment seems boring (though sensors probably feel very different about it), as maerzhase has said before it seems kind of pointless to point out the obvious ("I can see that it is raining.", "Yes, your trousers are too short.") I have actually been annoyed in the past by SP friends who say obvious things about an object that is right in front of me and with their talking disrupt me from intuiting about the object and looking deeper at its meaning etc.

The downside to Ni is that sometimes the pull to intuit is so strong, it's like a veil goes down around you and you can focus only on what you're thinking about. This can be problematic, say, if you're talking to somebody and suddenly intuition grabs your attention. It can be dangerous if you're, say, crossing a street.

I am sometimes so lost in thought that I am wondering "Did I just do this? Did I just put the plates into the cupboard?" etc but I am in general never completely cut off from the outside world, I definitely still notice the basics like if a car is coming in my direction. So I guess my intuition isn't as strong as yours. Though I can relate to not being able to focus on what people are saying because their chatter just doesn't grab your attention, the conversation isn't "meaty" and challenging enough.

 

[MrME]

I am sometimes so lost in thought that I am wondering "Did I just do this? Did I just put the plates into the cupboard?" etc but I am in general never completely cut off from the outside world, I definitely still notice the basics like if a car is coming in my direction. So I guess my intuition isn't as strong as yours.

Oh, bah. I'm not normally that bad. I encourage that state when I'm riding the bus to work. I write, and it's a perfect time to think about my ideas. You certainly experience the time dilation when you're doing something you're really focused on. Like when you play a video game and 3 hours disappear and you're like, WTF?!

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I get myself into trouble all of the time because I miss details or am "spaced out". Let me give a couple examples.

When I was a math teacher we were supposed to check that each student had the right course prerequisites at the beginning of the year. My department head made a big deal about this, and I had already messed up a couple times, so I wanted to make sure I got it right. So I had this list of all my students (about 100) and it included information about each one like Social Security #, major, etc.... It had a number in one field that indicated the highest math that they'd had so far. So I carefully looked at each name and wrote down the ones that didn't have the right prerequisites. Then I double-checked the list twice to make sure I had caught all the names. Out of bout 100 I wrote down 6. I found out later that I had missed two names and the Department Head was really pissed. He's like, "How many times do I have to tell you to check if they have the right prerequisites?" Well the funny thing is that I did check several times. I just couldn't pick out the details well enough to catch all of them.

A couple of months after getting hired to my new job the CFO held a lunch to welcome all the new employees in the financial area. It was marked on my email's calendar, and I would get a pop-up to remind me 15 minutes before lunch time that I was supposed to eat lunch with him that day. What actually happened is that I went to take a dump a couple of minutes before the pop-up came up, and I decided to go to lunch (by myself) after using the restroom. I had totally forgotten about the CFO, because my mind was somewhere else that day (like it is every day). It's not like I had anything important going on that was distracting my mind. My mind is always destracted with something, and that's why I ended up blowing off the CFO for lunch.

 

[garbage]

My mind is always destracted with something

I think this is pretty much intuition in a nutshell

 

[Lady_X]

^^ yeah...exactly. it's obvious to others too...i'm not paying any attention to the mundane motions in life...that's totally auto pilot. the only time i'm focused in the here and now is when i'm in a stimulating conversation with someone...even then...i'm jumping all over the place and interpreting things several different ways and having odd scenarios play out in my head. that's where the communication break down between an s and n happen because i can't hear what they're saying...i can only hear what i think they mean...it's so weird.

 

[Poki]

I can relate very well to the "auto-pilot" thing, I actually really love doing "dumb" manual tasks like washing up or hoovering etc because they give me the opportunity to just space out and think.

I drive. I know it sounds dangerous, but I have never been in a wreck doing it. I just end up where I am going without thinking. The most dangerous part is when I look down and my truck says "0 miles to empty"

 

[Amargith]

Actually, I don't have a drivers license for this reason. I tried out twice coz my parents insisted, but the second time for instance, my teacher had to brake in my stead on the way to the exam center and during the exam itself. I just do not notice that I'm spacing out and everything becomes a background...including cars that are coming towards me. My parents are dismayed that I will not try out again, they consider it a disgrace that their daughter cannot drive a car, but I refuse to. Have no need to add to the danger on the roads. It also stresses me to no end if I have to drive a car, coz I know I do this and there's no way to stop it.

 

[Lady_X]

amargith it is scary...i got my license a bit later...i think i was 18?? because i was the same way...even still i'm pretty sure most of my attention is not on my driving...i often miss exits because i'm simply just not paying attention. i'm not the sort of person who can remember how to get somewhere that someone else drove to...i never pay attention to street names and such when someone else is driving...i may look at interesting things along the way but about 80% is still in my head on something entirely different.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I can't say I fully grasped everything you said in your post, Antisocial. I think I have a basic idea of what you're saying, though.

I've always had a pretty good understanding of myself and my own values. My values have changed considerably over the years, which has affected how I relate to the rest of the world. To some degree, in that way my personality has changed. I've never really had an identity crisis since high school, though.

I see that you did not get it. I am not talking about long periods I talk about period of few days or just about few hours. I am talking about changing yourself so fast that people can't keep track of it or having a paralel value system that are developed with plans.

On the other hand maybe you can't relate since you are not T.
Some time ago I come a across the article that says that this is a caracteristic of expressed INTJs (which is my case).
What makes sense.


First I makes you unsocial so you are "free" and people don't affect you that much. Which means you are free to plan your life as you like.

Strong N gives you the ability to see the future to some degree what is very good for planning. Plus you are not in contact with reality.

Strong T makes you impersonal and calm and in conection with the first two stops the creation to of big and solid value system.

While J pushes everything forward and makes sure you are not too passive.


I think that is the main reason why INTJs are probably the most likely type to be accused that they don't have a soul.

 

[garbage]

Here's some more stuff I've written on the subject

"I always think very, very abstractly. I've got a horrible memory, I'm scatterbrained and don't think sequentially, and I lack attention to detail. It also means that I have a pretty good ability to forecast, pick up on patterns and hidden meanings, do many new things as if I've done them before, and suddenly realize solutions to problems without even thinking them through first.

I realize my life goals and learn new things very, very quickly. I feel like I'm on autopilot most of the time, as if the present moment is just the background to my thoughts."