S and N in real life

[Virtual ghost]

On this forum there is a lot of topics about about S/N but there is no that much talking about what that really means. What could be a problem for our local sensors.



So far it appears that I am strong N and I am technically blind and deaf because of this. I have to focus extra energy to be able to fully experiance world around me. For example I can see what is infront of me since my sences are working but do not notice what is infront of me.
But once I focus I can see the world normaly.


But what that means ?


It means that I can wear one black sock and one orange sock while I am not bothered by this.
Or I will try to buy newpapers in bakery. (which is not selling newspapers)
Personally I never trained any sport, if that means something here.
Plus plenty of similar things.


Also I have noticed one thing that Ns in general have bigger chances not to be bothered with things while waiting or planning. Which is probably because Ns can see the outcome more cleary. Plus even if things turn out differently Ns have something to calm them. While sensors can panic in the same situation. But F/T plays a part here as well.



How does your S/N show itself in your working environmet?
(try to avoid rants while answering this one)



Personally I don't know how to experiance world differently since I never was someone else.


This should be enough to start the conversation.

 

[garbage]

I see a problem, and the solution just clicks in my mind. It's as though I've mentally threaded a needle through a bunch of different disconnected resources, and all that's left is to physically thread that needle (i.e. implement that solution). I kind of feel like Macgyver when it happens

 

[Siegfried]

Intuition abstractly shows the way forward, helping to understand how should proceed for the future. My sensing can be pretty bad, sometimes though, keep misplacing stuff and become confused. In sports, I'm ok, hopefully it will help with that.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Intuition abstractly shows the way forward, helping to understand how should proceed for the future. My sensing can be pretty bad, sometimes though, keep misplacing stuff and become confused. In sports, I'm ok, hopefully it will help with that.

I don't get confused, but the thing is that I don't pay any attention to my environment in many cases.

 

[Giggly]

I have wondered what N looks like in real life too. You know like specific examples. I'm never really sure if or when I'm seeing it or not, and these general explanations of it just fly over my head.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have wondered what N looks like in real life too. You know like specific examples. I'm never really sure if or when I'm seeing it or not, and these general explanations of it just fly over my head.

The problem with intuition is that is not observale and what we have in our heads is often very hard to put into words. Usually the most observable thing is that that we are not focused on what is going around us.

I am open for questions if you have any.

 

[Night]

I have wondered what N looks like in real life too. You know like specific examples. I'm never really sure if or when I'm seeing it or not, and these general explanations of it just fly over my head.

In my experience, N tends to manifest best when establishing unusual connections between unrelated values.

The cat smells green.

Initially, the statement doesn't make sense as a cat cannot inherently smell "green". When you dig a little deeper into the complexity of what "green" could entail, the N dynamic becomes easier to visualize.

Green:

Envy?
Broccoli?
Money?
St. Patrick's Day?

"Green" transforms from a statement that seeks to identify color into a generalized terminology that could theoretically encapsulate whatever imaginative pulp one could logically tether to "green".

Eventually, observation becomes less about ascertaining absolutes and more about exploring possibility. (Maybe that's the NP v. NJ divide as well...).

Hope this helps.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In my experience, N tends to manifest best when establishing unusual connections between unrelated values.

The cat smells green.

Initially, the statement doesn't make sense as a cat cannot inherently smell "green". When you dig a little deeper into the complexity of what "green" could entail, the N dynamic becomes easier to visualize.

Green:

Envy?
Broccoli?
Money?
St. Patrick's Day?

"Green" transforms from a value statement that seeks to identify color into a generalized terminology that could theoretically encapsulate whatever imaginative pulp one could logically tether to "green".

Eventually, observation becomes less about ascertaining absolutes and more about exploring possibility. (Maybe that's the NP v. NJ divide as well...).

Hope this helps.

For some reason I think that this did not help her too much. As far as I know she is already confused about the whole N thing.

 

[nightning]

I have wondered what N looks like in real life too. You know like specific examples. I'm never really sure if or when I'm seeing it or not, and these general explanations of it just fly over my head.

You know... I was taking the bus today to campus... the same thing I do every day. Today, it just so happened that the bus wasn't jammed pack (which it usually is in the mornings). I took a seat near the front of the bus, one of those sideway seats... and the seat directly facing me was empty. The blue plastic/rubber? covering of the seat had a funny looking shaped crack in it.

It looked like the outline of a hand... well if you take your index, medium finger and your thumb and you extend them... palm facing yourself... that's what the crack looked like. Then I was looking at my hand and trying to duplicate the position... then it dawn on me why it looked a little off... because in the shape you can see the ring finger and pinky curled up. So there's no way that can be right hand... It works if it's left hand though... if you twist your thumb around.

Then I start thinking about what other things the crack looks like... I ended up with a face... some animal I've forgotten about... then the head of a dinosaur... Makes me wonder if I'm on crack or something... seeing things. Except I never take drugs...

How's that for a description? Not sure if it's Ni or Ne though... I think it's both... but mostly Ni.

 

[Bamboo]

On this forum there is a lot of topics about about S/N but there is no that much talking about what that really means. What could be a problem for our local sensors.


So far it appears that I am strong N and I am technically blind and deaf because of this. I have to focus extra energy to be able to fully experiance world around me. For example I can see what is infront of me since my sences are working but do not notice what is infront of me.
But once I focus I can see the world normaly.

Hi, I'm one of the local sensors. Yes, this does confuse me. I've been involved in a similar line of questioning elsewhere on the forum ("Not living in the here and now") but I still don't get it.

Focus extra energy on what? If you stop applying energy, then what happens? Is there a default mode? What is it?

Sounds really spaced out.

In my experience, N tends to manifest best when establishing unusual connections between unrelated values.

The cat smells green.

Initially, the statement doesn't make sense as a cat cannot inherently smell "green". When you dig a little deeper into the complexity of what "green" could entail, the N dynamic becomes easier to visualize.

Green:

Envy?
Broccoli?
Money?
St. Patrick's Day?

"Green" transforms from a statement that seeks to identify color into a generalized terminology that could theoretically encapsulate whatever imaginative pulp one could logically tether to "green".

Eventually, observation becomes less about ascertaining absolutes and more about exploring possibility. (Maybe that's the NP v. NJ divide as well...).

Hope this helps.

This makes sense.

I'm of the opinion that if you are an "N", that means you have a preference for, in your words, "establishing unusual connections between unrelated values." You probably have a preference for this because you are good at it or have had lots of practice (or both).

What's your methodology for relating unusual connections? You might not be aware of exactly how this works, but like all complex skills, it has components.

Smell can have color; see: synesthesia

 

[Halla74]

On this forum there is a lot of topics about about S/N but there is no that much talking about what that really means. What could be a problem for our local sensors.

Hey, thanks for taking a crack at clarifying a totally alien concept to me! (I'm an ESTP with zero N...)

So far it appears that I am strong N and I am technically blind and deaf because of this. I have to focus extra energy to be able to fully experiance world around me. For example I can see what is infront of me since my sences are working but do not notice what is infront of me.
But once I focus I can see the world normaly.

Do you have to focus extra all the time while performing mission critical activities, like work at your job, or school work?

But what that means ?

It means that I can wear one black sock and one orange sock while I am not bothered by this.

Good for you, life is too short for such tomfoolery.

Or I will try to buy newpapers in bakery. (which is not selling newspapers)
Personally I never trained any sport, if that means something here.
Plus plenty of similar things.

Faulty shopping is not a crime. No sports, eh? What about personal fitness? Do you walk/run/jog/lift/etc.?

Also I have noticed one thing that Ns in general have bigger chances not to be bothered with things while waiting or planning. Which is probably because Ns can see the outcome more cleary. Plus even if things turn out differently Ns have something to calm them. While sensors can panic in the same situation. But F/T plays a part here as well.

OK, here I have to disagree. N's don't see the outcome more clearly, they have an expectation of what the outcome should be, in their minds, and there is no guarantee that is what is going to happen in the real world now is it?

If things turn out differently, ala as you did not expect, then it seems to me you would be better served by being able to do work on the fly to fix things as they need to be so no one gets fired, right?

OK, last point, I am 100% S, my wife is 100% J, and while I am hyper, spastic, and goofy, I am the calm one of the two of us. In a bind, I can act and perform, where she might be a little freaked out and need a minute to regroup, by which time I'm done with the fix and sipping coffee.

And as far as comfort, I am comfortable with all in the here and now as I am comfortable with me, so no matter if things turn out as I expected, try to make happen, or completely different, I am at peace and have coping skills as a result of it.

How does your S/N show itself in your working environmet?
(try to avoid rants while answering this one).

I am a go getter. I am a team player too and respect authority, especially since I like my boss alot. If I am turned loose on a project I analyze the situation, assess the given state of things, formulate a gap analayis of what is and what is desired to be, evaluate time/money/and people available to do the work, and then present my plan to the stakeholders. I ask for input, if it sucks, I talk them into my plan. If they trump me with rank, then I call my plan their plan and move on because I know they really only give a shit about the end result.

How does your N show itself in your work environment?

Personally I don't know how to experiance world differently since I never was someone else.

This should be enough to start the conversation.

 

[Jeffster]

The example I always go back to is listening to what a person talk about. And how often that person brings in hypothetical questions or fantastical scenarios. It's not absolute of course. S types can certainly ask hypothetical questions or talk about completely fantasy topics, but it doesn't tend to be what we talk about most of the time or try to steer the conversation towards, whereas it seems with N types it's almost a necessity for them to bring up stuff that could never actually happen or has nothing to do with reality or is completely conceptual.

Hmm, I'll give you a specific example that occurred in the Vent chat one night. I think you might have even been there that time, but I could be wrong. TucsonENTP asked the question "if you had 24 points to split among the three categories of face, body, and personality, how would you divide them for your perfect mate?" Now he didn't actually ask the question that concisely (another thing that N's seem to have trouble with ) but that was the gist of it. Now, I played along with it, because it was a kinda fun exercise, even though I pointed out the inherent flaw in trying to put personality on a 1-10 scale.

But my overall point is that I would have never asked this question for one simple reason. It has no relevance to anything real. We don't have the ability to create the perfect mate based on a point system. It's a completely hypothetical scenario that has no likelihood to exist in reality in our lifetimes. Like I said, I could play along with the idea, and other S-types could too, it's not that we are incapable. But given natural circumstances, I don't think most S-types would ever be the one to start a conversation like that. We're a lot more likely to start a conversation about something real and tangible, with actual relevance to our daily lives.

To use Vent as an example again, although I'm not usually the one who starts topics, because as I've said many times, I'm more of a responder, but when I do, I usually will tell stories from my life, either what happened to me at work, or something my son did or said, or people or things I observed while out somewhere or something I heard on radio/tv, etc. It's very unlikely that I'm gonna suddenly say something like "If you could choose either to have wings or roller feet, which would it be?" And if I do, I'm probably making fun of the N's.

 

[prplchknz]

Sensors accuse of Intuitives for being on drugs when they're just being themselves.

 

[Lightyear]

As an NJ I am constantly planning, I sometimes have to conciously stop myself from doing that, for example I apply for a job and immediately think about how to get to the interviewing venue (despite having not even been invited to the interview!).

If I do something I immediately think of all the different ways it could play itself out, I see possible problems from the beginning and try to make sure they are avoided. In contrast especially SPs seem to let things just come as they are and deal with problems once they are right in front of them while I can see a potential problem a mile away and try to solve it before it happens. So often SPs accuse me of just being too controlling and no fun (which can be true, not all problems that I forsee will happen) while I am always torn between letting the SP do their own thing and trying to save them from the car crash that I know will happen but that they just can't see coming.

My S friends will also tell me about what is happening at the moment in the physical world to them ("Oh my hair is feeling so dry." "I burnt my finger and it is turning red." "I have eaten too much, my stomach is bloating." etc.) while I might feel really bored by these sort of comments (For heaven's sake I can see that you finger is red, you don't need to talk about it constantly.) and instead already see future possiblities in my head and plan accordingly, or see a deeper meaning/ metaphor/ connection behind the visible (Her burnt finger reminds me of a certain fairy tale or the time I touched a piece of hot coal in Southern Spain, etc.)

Also something else I thought of. Intuitive thoughts are like stray radio signals that constantly disrupt me from just seeing the visible world for what it is. I might look at a nice jacket and appreciate its colour and texture but suddenly my N will jump in and this jacket suddenly reminds me of something completely random, for example how this woman I saw in Tokyo station in 2007 while waiting for the night train was wearing exactly the same colour, or how a certain tribe used to give beautiful jackets as a gift to their guests or how the blue of the jacket is blue like the sea etc. That's why especially we NFs are so great at building metaphors, our brains just automatically make these immediate connections between seemingly random, unconnected things.

 

[bluebell]

Focus extra energy on what? If you stop applying energy, then what happens? Is there a default mode? What is it?

Sounds really spaced out.

Probably the best analogy I can think of is if you're trying to read a really heavy-going book (say, a textbook on a topic that you're not really interested in). If you make yourself concentrate really hard, you can kinda focus on the words and make yourself read it, but it's really hard work.

Paying attention to the world around me is a lot like that. I can do it if I have to but I have to make myself do it and I zone out again as soon as I get distracted and start thinking about stuff again. Obviously, I notice some things, otherwise I would be walking in to things non-stop but I tune out most details. Even when someone points something out to me, it still takes me a lot of effort to notice it.

OK, here I have to disagree. N's don't see the outcome more clearly, they have an expectation of what the outcome should be, in their minds, and there is no guarantee that is what is going to happen in the real world now is it?

If things turn out differently, ala as you did not expect, then it seems to me you would be better served by being able to do work on the fly to fix things as they need to be so no one gets fired, right?

k, so I'm not sure that my N is that strong (I don't have the wild Ne that ENTPs and some INTPs have), but I tend to look a lot further ahead at work. I don't know if that's an N thing or not, but it does seem to be a difference between SPs and how I operate.

Some of the stuff that I'm working on won't have any tangible outputs for maybe 3 to 5 years (or even longer) in the future. My boss (probably INFP) and I can both see the preliminary steps that we need to get in place *now* in order for those long term goals to have any chance of success. It's pretty obvious to both of us what needs to be done. (We have an overarching big picture goal and everything automatically gets assessed against that goal)

Also, we never ever do anything for one single reason. Each activity and task is done for multiple reasons. We *always* progress multiple agendas with everything we do, and tie various projects (that may seem somewhat unrelated at first glance) together in ways that aren't immediately obvious to others, even when we explain it in detail.

I'm curious to hear if any other Ns relate to this at all or not. Edit: I'm also curious if any SPs or SJs relate to this.

 

[maerzhase]

We're a lot more likely to start a conversation about something real and tangible, with actual relevance to our daily lives.

To use Vent as an example again, although I'm not usually the one who starts topics, because as I've said many times, I'm more of a responder, but when I do, I usually will tell stories from my life, either what happened to me at work, or something my son did or said, or people or things I observed while out somewhere or something I heard on radio/tv, etc. It's very unlikely that I'm gonna suddenly say something like "If you could choose either to have wings or roller feet, which would it be?" And if I do, I'm probably making fun of the N's.

I have a strong Ni. When I talk about what is real and tangible, it feels to me as if I am stating the obvious. I do not know what it is, but that makes me uncomfortable. I think I am driven to create something in my mind. So making statements about things that exist seems to me really pointless. I am in close relationship with an isfp and I wonder whether it satisfies him if I only talk about things that I did, that we want to do together, that he did or that I did. This sounds a bit boring to me. Do you think this is enough talk for an S-Person? By the way I have my N-talks with other people, so I don't miss out there. Still sometimes I wonder what a satisfying talk would look like to an ISFP? But I guess from your above statement I am just projecting my own idea of an conservation. So he does not actually need other topics.

 

[maerzhase]

Sensors accuse of Intuitives for being on drugs when they're just being themselves.

That is funny. I just can't see the need for drugs. I am already busy enough twisting my brain. I wish I could stop it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hi, I'm one of the local sensors. Yes, this does confuse me. I've been involved in a similar line of questioning elsewhere on the forum ("Not living in the here and now") but I still don't get it.

Focus extra energy on what? If you stop applying energy, then what happens? Is there a default mode? What is it?

Sounds really spaced out.

The thing is that I have to concentrate on my senses if I want to experiance the world around me. If I stop the I return to my basic "mode" that is concentrated on my thoughts. I see all the time but I am not focused on what I see all the time.

Hey, thanks for taking a crack at clarifying a totally alien concept to me! (I'm an ESTP with zero N...)
How does your N show itself in your work environment?

I walk alot so my body is functional and healthy. Us usually I take solitary walks that can last for hours. But when I walk I maintain small sensory input that allows me to see where I am going.

Instead of answering question by question I will answer all at once.

The main thing here is that there are jobs that are better for S or better for N. So if you do a N job you don't need to focus that much on your surroundings. For now I am just a hard science student so my "job" comes down to alot of solitary thinking.


There is a fact that other 3 letters play a role here as well. Differences between ENFP and INTJ are quite large.


I walk alot so my body is functional and healthy. Usually I take solitary walks that can last for hours. But when I walk I maintain small sensory input that allows me to see where I am going. The thing is that I know my environment well so I will know where to be careful. So nothing ever happened to me.


I have to disagee on seing what will happen part. You said for yourself that you are hardcore S. Which means that it is reasonable that you have a hard time with this concept since you can't indentify yourself with this.

But trust me if I have the right information I can be very good in guessing what will happen. But as I said other letters play a rope here as well.

 

[wolfy]

Probably the best analogy I can think of is if you're trying to read a really heavy-going book (say, a textbook on a topic that you're not really interested in). If you make yourself concentrate really hard, you can kinda focus on the words and make yourself read it, but it's really hard work.

Paying attention to the world around me is a lot like that. I can do it if I have to but I have to make myself do it and I zone out again as soon as I get distracted and start thinking about stuff again. Obviously, I notice some things, otherwise I would be walking in to things non-stop but I tune out most details. Even when someone points something out to me, it still takes me a lot of effort to notice it.

If you reverse your textbook analogy you have my world.

k, so I'm not sure that my N is that strong (I don't have the wild Ne that ENTPs and some INTPs have), but I tend to look a lot further ahead at work. I don't know if that's an N thing or not, but it does seem to be a difference between SPs and how I operate.

Some of the stuff that I'm working on won't have any tangible outputs for maybe 3 to 5 years (or even longer) in the future. My boss (probably INFP) and I can both see the preliminary steps that we need to get in place *now* in order for those long term goals to have any chance of success. It's pretty obvious to both of us what needs to be done. (We have an overarching big picture goal and everything automatically gets assessed against that goal)

Also, we never ever do anything for one single reason. Each activity and task is done for multiple reasons. We *always* progress multiple agendas with everything we do, and tie various projects (that may seem somewhat unrelated at first glance) together in ways that aren't immediately obvious to others, even when we explain it in detail.

I'm curious to hear if any other Ns relate to this at all or not. Edit: I'm also curious if any SPs or SJs relate to this.

I can kind of relate but seem to be coming from a different angle
I'm always looking for ways of moving the varied things that interest me into a coherent whole.

For me I know a lot about certain subjects and at work workmates seem to value me as a great source of specific answers to specific questions but I have trouble bringing it into a coherent system.

As an example on the exercise thread I often can't answer the questions because they are too general. My mind locks up on all the variables.

 

[Quinlan]

And as far as comfort, I am comfortable with all in the here and now as I am comfortable with me, so no matter if things turn out as I expected, try to make happen, or completely different, I am at peace and have coping skills as a result of it.

That's beautiful. *wipes tear*

So often SPs accuse me of just being too controlling and no fun (which can be true, not all problems that I forsee will happen) while I am always torn between letting the SP do their own thing and trying to save them from the car crash that I know will happen but that they just can't see coming.

The thing is, when the "crash" comes (if it ever does) it will not affect an SP in the same way it might affect a J type. By almost never using rigid plans we very quickly learn how to adapt and work our way around problems in the immediate situation. SPs are adaptable and tactical, we can step past a lot of problems that would have other types scrambling for plan B. Sure every now and then we get blindsided by something huge, but those are usually the kind of things that no amount of planning will save you from.