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  1. #71
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    In my experience, N tends to manifest best when establishing unusual connections between unrelated values.

    The cat smells green.

    Initially, the statement doesn't make sense as a cat cannot inherently smell "green". When you dig a little deeper into the complexity of what "green" could entail, the N dynamic becomes easier to visualize.

    Green:

    Envy?
    Broccoli?
    Money?
    St. Patrick's Day?
    i understand your semantic meaning here, but your way of explaining it isn't the best. "the cat smells green" would seldom be a topic or a sentence heard anywhere. in addition, it sounds more like a case of synesthesia.

    intuition is the (abstract) association of the subconsciousness to the relevant thought of the consciousness. instead of the literal meaning of a word, it can be translated to various contexts. take for instance the difference between the two contexts;

    "the car was green"
    "the air was green with pollution"

    in the second example, the air may not really be green; but would be figure a speech. intuition can work somewhat in the same sense.

    another example of intuition would be:

    a car rolls by; what does a s/n person see?

    a sensing person sees a car.
    an intuitive person sees a combination of different parts, and understands that they work together to create a car.

    sensing shows the tip of the iceberg, whereas intuition is more concerned by what is below the tip. compare it to a person wearing a mask versus how that person's face really looks.
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  2. #72
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Night was describing Ni.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    an intuitive person sees a combination of different parts, and understands that they work together to create a car.
    Don't try to always make N complicated and profound... sometimes a car's just a car.

    Although Ne has a tendency to see parts of the car, where as Ni likes the meaning and interpretation of the car as a whole.

    A green car
    From obvious to non-obvious
    1. Green in color
    2. Green as in energy saving (hybrid, battery, solar, hydrogen fuel, corn oil fuel)
    3. Green as in untried (less frequently used, but the interpretation exists)

    Process of Ni broken down

    Cat smells green
    Cat = cat
    Green = something that's green?
    Smell green... what's green that smells... grass
    Cat smells like cut grass?
    Cat, cut => bleeding, blood
    Scent of blood on fresh cut grass.
    Fresh => Old, stale
    Dried blood and stench of decomposing cat on a patch of dried grass

    A cat that smells green is merely a starting point. You can literally take any path from that and end up with something completely different. No single way is more "correct" than any other. Usually what an Ni dominant person do is to go through different possibilities until they find one that's most suitable for a given situation. If the purpose is to play with ideas, then you get something like "the cat smells green".

    sensing shows the tip of the iceberg, whereas intuition is more concerned by what is below the tip. compare it to a person wearing a mask versus how that person's face really looks.
    Well perhaps that's more Ne related. Ni doesn't seen it that way at all. Ni doesn't see what a person's face is really like. Rather it explores all the facets of the various masks people wear. Perhaps through examining all the mask you can find a pattern that represents person as a whole. But that whole is not the person's face, just a representation.

    ------

    I realize I'm not describing how a N dominant person will act IRL. I guess the inherent problem is that I rarely pay attention to my actions in detail. Absentmindedness. So when I try to describe it, I couldn't recall anything particular I can say is "N". Instead I describe my interpretation of N functions. It can be confusing to an S. My apologies.
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  3. #73
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How would you rate/describe your inner thought process?
    Can you be more specific? Thought process about what?
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  4. #74
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Don't try to always make N complicated and profound... sometimes a car's just a car.
    car is an allegory (specific occurrence for a general principle). also: it's not a good move to tell people that they are wrong about something that could very well be completely subjective.

    i get a vibe saying you don't know what you're talking about with the Ne/Ni things. what you describe mostly is essentially what others have already said about N, but worded differently. the way you describe how Ni works could very much correspond to what i meant by the mask/face analogy.

    my point is that Ni or Ne do not differ in terms of meaning; they derive from the same base or stream of thought. whether they may be differently interpreted by the conscious part of the mind is another question entirely.

    i have had these "bump-ins" with Ni people before; it has always been a question of elaboration and putting meaning into the right wording.

    about being (supposed) N dominant:
    my mind is bombarded with abstract thoughts that have little relation to what i do. i am subject to changing my activities to whatever my mind finds interesting. in a sense, it's a binding or an obligation that overrules all other obligations.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  5. #75
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am wondering how often does this happen to other Ns.

    The scenario/task is that you have to walk through a city from point A to B and you will need about 20 minutes for that.
    But as you are walking you maintain only a small sensory imput which only tells you that you are walking on a sidewalk and you notice a street lights. But you don't notice any details like details on buildings ,trees and if you another person is coming you only register that a person is coming your way and that you should do something about it.
    The gender , clothing and colors are not registered in most cases.

    Which means that you in a way "fall a sleep" while you are walking throught out the streets to get to the point B. So when you get there you wake up and you can't recall most of your "trip". Which is because your brain was busy playing with concepts and ideas. Or you can simply wake up on the half of the way and you say to yourself "Cool, I am already here." .

    I am not talking about cases when you are listening to music along the way.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    a sensing person sees a car.
    an intuitive person sees a combination of different parts, and understands that they work together to create a car.
    This is way to simple simply because we ignore the external vs internal element. Ni tries to figure out what its purpose/intention is. Ne is like, I could use the car to do xyz. Se wants to drive to see what he can do with it. Si sits there and envisions what would make it look better.


    Se wants the car to be fun(hands you the keys so you can enjoy)/Si wants the car to sound fun(explain exactly what is in the car). Either way the end result is a car thats fun to drive.

    Ne tries to tie the car to all kinds of tasks. Ni thinks of all the possible ways to use a car. Either way the end result is the same.

    So when we just look at the S/N split we miss the reasons all we get are the outcomes. You miss the adventure and focus on the end result.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am wondering how often does this happen to other Ns.

    The scenario/task is that you have to walk through a city from point A to B and you will need about 20 minutes for that.
    But as you are walking you maintain only a small sensory imput which only tells you that you are walking on a sidewalk and you notice a street lights. But you don't notice any details like details on buildings ,trees and if you another person is coming you only register that a person is coming your way and that you should do something about it.
    The gender , clothing and colors are not registered in most cases.

    Which means that you in a way "fall a sleep" while you are walking throught out the streets to get to the point B. So when you get there you wake up and you can't recall most of your "trip". Which is because your brain was busy playing with concepts and ideas. Or you can simply wake up on the half of the way and you say to yourself "Cool, I am already here." .

    I am not talking about cases when you are listening to music along the way.
    This is not N, you are describing Ni supported by Fi. Welcome to being introverted and being in your head not being N. I can get from point A to point B and not remember one thing around me. Other times I pay so much attention that I dont miss anything. When I get in my head I am more N because of Ni, but when an ISTJ gets in there head it is about Si. The problem with N is that it is possible to relate unrelated things together. The problem with S is that we see the differences and miss the relations. When I get stuck in Se I sit here and think to myself thats just not the same, but cant pinpoint why until I get in my head.

  8. #78
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    This is not N, you are describing Ni supported by Fi. Welcome to being introverted and being in your head not being N. I can get from point A to point B and not remember one thing around me. Other times I pay so much attention that I dont miss anything. When I get in my head I am more N because of Ni, but when an ISTJ gets in there head it is about Si. The problem with N is that it is possible to relate unrelated things together. The problem with S is that we see the differences and miss the relations. When I get stuck in Se I sit here and think to myself thats just not the same, but cant pinpoint why until I get in my head.
    Correct.

    But the reason why I have asked this on this way is because I wanted to see how will Ne users relate to this.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Correct.

    But the reason why I have asked this on this way is because I wanted to see how will Ne users relate to this.
    You may have asked the wrong question to the wrong group simply based on the fact that Ne picks up how things relate. You are more likely gonna get relations based on similarities in in the F/T mentality because your Ni/Se does not relate at all to Ne/Si.

  10. #80
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    You may have asked the wrong question to the wrong group simply based on the fact that Ne picks up how things relate. You are more likely gonna get relations based on similarities in in the F/T mentality because your Ni/Se does not relate at all to Ne/Si.
    Of course I asked the wrong question (if you go by the book).
    This is why I call this experimenting.

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