User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 57

  1. #11
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    epic
    Posts
    477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    When you figure out your type, you shall discover how your mind, in its nature is predisposed to behave. Your personality may change, but type shall not.

    Take a typical Extrovert for instance who is a politician. In his career he shall behave like an ordinary Extrovert, outgoing and opinionated. Suppose he was sacked from office and is now forced to work as an accountant. At this point he would start to develop more reserved, contemplative cognitive traits. Yet what would not change is his physiological disposition that leads him to be most easily energized through interaction with his environment than through contemplation.
    okay, the point of this being? and at what point do you draw the line between nature and nurture? at what point do i say .. hmm .. i "unconsciously" make decisions based on values .. but i have "learned" to make decisions based on logic. the line between "socialization" and "biology" is hotly debated topic .. and mbti is certainly no scientific expert on that. furthermore .. we should instinctively be aware of when we are feeling joy, happiness, and satisfaction and then strive to understand why we feel that way instead of ACTIVELY TRYING TO STRUCTURE OUR LIFE EXPERIENCE BASED ON A POP-PSYCH TYPE.

  2. #12
    beyondaurora
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Have you simply tried to read some profiles and decide for you which you like the most? What do you score on the tests?
    Hey BlackCat. Yes, I have indeed read many profiles. When I first joined here, I settled on the ISFP Best Fit Type description (but I was only considering IxxP types). I scored INTP/ISTP on my professional tests. I score any variation of IxxP on the free ones. Cognitive processes and MMDI point to ISFJ/ESFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    what do you suppose happens when you "figure it out"? nirvana?
    That's the thing, sunny, I don't know. I feel that it will bring order to my understanding which will relieve my anxiety. I like ideas to fit and belong places.

    With regard to achieving nirvana, I inherently know that the only thing that will bring me anywhere near such a place is letting go...of pretty much everything I hold so tightly in my life.




    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    what do you hope to achieve by finally pin-pointing your "unconscious behavioral/cognitive" tendencies - do you hope to understand yourself, your past, and shape your future in a positive manner? what is it that you truly want from this hypothetical complete understanding of your "type"?
    I really don't know what I want from this (or from ordering my clothing colors). I just feel like I need to do it. Actually, scratch that. I want direction. The whole reason I got into typing was to settle on a major and career choice. Now, I also want to know why I fucked up my marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Perhaps you are in a wack phase of your life in which you _____________ (aren't busy enough / are recovering from trauma / what have you), and are therefore trying to fill a void with an obsession rather than tend to source of the emptiness?

    My whole life is a 'wack phase'. But yeah, I'm sure it's true that I'm trying to fill a void (or focus on a distraction!).


    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    we should instinctively be aware of when we are feeling joy, happiness, and satisfaction and then strive to understand why we feel that way instead of ACTIVELY TRYING TO STRUCTURE OUR LIFE EXPERIENCE BASED ON A POP-PSYCH TYPE.

    Interesting, sunny. However, I think if I knew what brought me happiness, I wouldn't be sitting here trying to figure out what does. Also, when I defend my obsessions with typing and color coordination, I tell people to leave me alone, that 'it makes me happy'.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post
    This won't be news to many of you...I am obsessed with figuring out my type. And the word 'obsessed' isn't to be taken lightly.

    I spend every free moment (truly) trying to figure out my type. I drove 30 miles yesterday to purchase 'Gifts Differing' and 'Personality Type: An Owner's Manual'. I do as little work as possible at my jobs, instead endlessly browsing the same sites I've explored before, but each time following some new idea (that surely, this time, will unlock the answer!). This weekend, like the last and the one before it, have been spent laying in bed reading 'Understanding Yourself and Others' or enneagram books, hardly getting up but for the necessities.

    I just keep going in circles and circles.

    And this isn't the only subject with which I do this. I am also obsessed with the 'Color Me Beautiful' color-coordinated dressing system. My mom will no longer go shopping with me because I hold every piece of clothing to my hair or skin to see if it is congruent. I would spend the daylight hours of my weekend time not with my husband but outside trying to capture my skin's 'undertone' in the natural light so that I could determine whether I am a 'warm' or 'cool'. (It's amazing that I want so desperately to match colors perfectly, yet I while doing so, my room continues to look like this.)

    The problem is, with both of these obsessions, I am apparently ill-equipped at utilizing the systems. One day I will determine with absolute certainly that I am such and such type or that I am a 'warm'. The next day, I 'see' with absolute clarity that I am wrong! I will purchase 'warm-colored clothing' then take the items back because I realize I was wrong. Every cycle includes a 'Eureka' moment followed by disillusion followed by a 'Eureka' moment and on and on.

    For whatever reason, I cannot recognize these things on my own. I don't know what's wrong with me. And the more I realize I cannot recognize them, the more I want to re-read the rules of the system and try again! I just know I can do it!

    The strange thing is, even in my posting of this, I have faith that the 'answer' is in my obsessions themselves! That the pairing of my tertiary and inferior are responsible for this unhealthy loop.

    I'm at the point where I feel the only thing that will help me is to quit these obsessions cold-turkey, but I fear that unless I understand the functions at work, I will do the same thing with something else (previously I was obsessed with finding the 'perfect' career, which ultimately brought me to MBTI which which has obviously gotten me nowhere).

    I'm not sure what I even expect anyone to say...I'm just lost at the moment.
    I'm sorry.

  4. #14
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Meh. In order to determine that with accuracy, you would need to knowing the complete set of a person's traits, and classify all of them. That's impossible for lots of reasons. First off, there are way too many traits, because every situation is unique and is responded to with a different, unique trait. Beyond that, traits develop with personality, so by the time you classify some, they've already changed..
    In order to understand our natural tendencies, there needs to be an investigation of one's traits. However, what determines one's type is not one's traits but the essence that underlies them.

    For example, an Extrovert, should he be able to be true to his nature will consistently display the trait of interaction with the external world instead of contemplation. ( Will do this significantly more often than the countervailing behaviors such as reflection.)

    What is my point? My point is, we need to ensure that we do not make the following judgments, because somebody consistently displays traits associated with extroversion, they are extroverts. We need to ensure that what motivates them to extrovert is their intrinsic nature and not their circumstances.

    How do we do that? By ensuring that under the current circumstances the individual in question is free to behave in a manner of his choice. (For the sake of a concrete example, somebody may well display the traits of an extrovert at a job environment where he is forced to do so. (Such as sales or public relation.)

    Secondly, we need to ensure that we have a comprehensive survey of one's traits and circumstances under which they are exhibited. In order to ensure that we conduct such a survey it is paramount to a significant amount of accurate information with regard to the person being typed and such information must be analyzed with intellectual honesty.

    Most people do not have the skill or patience to undergo such a laborious task as collecting such a significant quantity of information and carefully analyzing it. For this reason most people are not adept at typing themselves. Typing should be done by psycho-therapists and biographers of the individual being typed or people who have the skill and the motivation to undergo arduous tasks described above.



    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It's this myth of the "true type" that has people confused about who they are.
    Psychologists have already shown that we have intrinsic dispositions such as Introversion or Extroversion. To a significant extent such dispositions are more of a matter of nature rather nurture, or they are nearly innate. This shows that some parts of you do not change easily, or at all. It is an important point of human nature that only some aspects of our personality are up to us to change.


    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    okay, the point of this being? and at what point do you draw the line between nature and nurture?.
    Typology is concerned with natural dispositions. (MBTI is something almost entirely different).

    From the standpoint of typology, an Extrovert or a Thinker for instance, is not one who likes to interact with the environment or to use logic, but one who has an intrinsic psychological disposition to be energized by interacting with the environment or by reasoning in a dispassionate manner.

    As I have stated in response to Edahn, the element of nurture is only important in our endeavor to understand our intrinsic dispositions. Qualities somebody has as a result of their interaction with the environment are to be examined not as an end in themselves but as means to the end of understanding their intrinsic dispositions. (For instance, a typologist should not be asking why Smith is outgoing, a typologist should note that Smith is outgoing and then examine his biography further to see if his outgoing behavior has anything to do with his nature or is chiefly an outcome of nurture. If it is not an outcome of nurture, it follows that his type is Extroverted)

    What is the point of this? I provide the proper methodology with regard to what we must do in order to meaningfully and coherently answer questions about typology. Our current methodology and a conceptual framework (MBTI) is unsatisfactory as it entails a host of confusions and absurdities as palpably illustrated in the OP of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    at what point do i say .. hmm .. i "unconsciously" make decisions based on values .. but i have "learned" to make decisions based on logic. the line between "socialization" and "biology" is hotly debated topic .?.
    Only after you have carefully studied the habits of your mind by collecting a wealth of autobiographical information and rigorously analyzing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    and mbti is certainly no scientific expert on that.
    It certainly is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    furthermore .. we should instinctively be aware of when we are feeling joy, happiness, and satisfaction and then strive to understand why we feel that way instead of ACTIVELY TRYING TO STRUCTURE OUR LIFE EXPERIENCE BASED ON A POP-PSYCH TYPE.
    No, definitely do not want to use MBTI (pop-psyche typology) as an instrument for interpretation of your experiences.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #15
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,002

    Default

    You sound SF. ISFP may have been a good choice for you. Have you actually looked at what E/I, S/N, T/F, P/J mean when not used to define a type?

    EDIT: Of course my perception could be wrong. Take it with a grain of salt.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #16
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    In order to understand our natural tendencies, there needs to be an investigation of one's traits. However, what determines one's type is not one's traits but the essence that underlies them.
    So we've substituted the word "type" for the word "essence." That makes it all better, thanks.

    For example, an Extrovert, should he be able to be true to his nature will consistently display the trait of interaction with the external world instead of contemplation. ( Will do this significantly more often than the countervailing behaviors such as reflection.)
    This is the point I made above. What you say doesn't speak to any essence, just a tendency based on probability. It's an artificial construct because it seeks to collapse information and classify it, and will therefore have problems if it's taken too seriously to be something unchanging and internal, as you and beyond take it.

    What is my point? My point is, we need to ensure that we do not make the following judgments, because somebody consistently displays traits associated with extroversion, they are extroverts. We need to ensure that what motivates them to extrovert is their intrinsic nature and not their circumstances.

    How do we do that? By ensuring that under the current circumstances the individual in question is free to behave in a manner of his choice. (For the sake of a concrete example, somebody may well display the traits of an extrovert at a job environment where he is forced to do so. (Such as sales or public relation.)
    And what if they display 2 different tendencies? UH OH, SPAGHETTIO. There's the myth of the "true type" or as you say the "true essence."

    I'll read the rest later. Maybe.

  7. #17
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Posts
    550

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post
    The strange thing is, even in my posting of this, I have faith that the 'answer' is in my obsessions themselves! That the pairing of my tertiary and inferior are responsible for this unhealthy loop.
    Best guess: INFJ. This is because your "symptoms" sound horribly familiar to me!

    It is what happens when our Inferior Se function gets totally and utterly stuck on external details, which it then feeds to tertiary Ti for analysis, which feeds it's evaluation back to Se, which then finds more details which contradict this evaluation, so it sends them to Ti for more analysis....and so on ad infinitum. I call it "analysis paralysis".

    I pretty certain this is what is happening to you: the obsessive focus on "colour coordination" is a very strong pointer towards Se. Also, it reflects the fact that you want to look good for others, which shows that Fe is also involved here - another hint that you may be an INFJ. Ni is being largely shut-out here; it pops up whenever you have a "Eureka" moment, but is then being drowned out by the excessive Se-Ti noise. However, your Ni has gotten one important idea through to you: that the answer lies with your tertiary and inferior pairing.

    You can at least console yourself with the fact that by the time this loop has run its course, you will have absorbed so much information on these topics that you will effectively have become an expert!

    In the meantime, when you can (these things cannot be forced), take some downtime to help you recover your normal equilibrium. You may need to allow Se to express itself on it's own terms - possibilities include exercising, getting out into nature, cooking and enjoying a delicious meal, going to the movies. You will know which type of activity has worked for you in the past.

    Good Luck!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  8. #18
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    873 sx/so
    Socionics
    SLE Ti
    Posts
    7,160

    Default

    I'm not gonna guess at a type but say you do need to find some sort of peace in your life someway, there's no real easy way to do it, so it's probably gonna feel worse then pulling your arm out of your own shoulder, but before you can find yourself you need to solve the problems around you right now. Type will always be there, but unfortunately so will your burdens unless you do something about them.

    That is all.

  9. #19
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So we've substituted the word "type" for the word "essence." That makes it all better, thanks..
    We all have essences. Who is predisposed to scream has an essence or a quality of a 'screamer' simply put. Its not a typological essence as he has developed such a quality through interaction with the environment. Essence simply means the same thing as a quality of one's character.

    A typological essence is one that is a result of his solidified unconscious dispositions.

    Type is merely one kind of a psychological essence.



    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    This is the point I made above. What you say doesn't speak to any essence, just a tendency based on probability...
    What probability do you have in mind? There must be an essence, must there not? If somebody has a tendency to scream, is screaming not one of their qualities? If so, this proves that there is such a thing as an essence.

    To prove that there is a typological essence, it must be shown that somebody has qualities of character that clearly were not shaped by their environment (unlike somebody's quality of screaming).

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It's an artificial construct because it seeks to collapse information and classify it, and will therefore have problems if it's taken too seriously to be something unchanging and internal, as you and beyond take it....
    Everything is an artifical construct. We need to construct methods for interpreting the world. For instance, our metric system is also an artificial construct that we have invented to better understand reality. This does not in way undermine the integrity of the information we have.

    Also note, mathematics is an artificial system used to collect information about the world. Does it mean that it is the case that whatever we know by virtue of mathematics is unreliable because mathematics is an artificial construct?





    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    And what if they display 2 different tendencies? UH OH, SPAGHETTIO. There's the myth of the "true type" or as you say the "true essence.".
    That would mean we need to continue investigating to see which tendency truly is the prevalent. In principle, it is not possible for both tendencies to be non-prevalent as the tendencies in question countervail each other. For instance, if Extroversion and Introversion had an equal amount of an influence the person would not be able to function in a consistent manner. He simply would not be able to decide whether to contemplate or to interact, as neither of the two would be rewarding enough for him.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #20
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,002

    Default

    This thread is about beyondaurora, not SolitaryWalker's opinion on why Edahn is wrong.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] mbti book recommendation for my nephew
    By rocco in forum Typology and Psychology Book Reviews
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-15-2017, 08:27 PM
  2. Big Five and MBTI: My Personality 100-item something
    By Bush Did 9/11 in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 04-23-2017, 12:22 PM
  3. Replies: 125
    Last Post: 01-23-2013, 09:13 PM
  4. Your theory on MBTI obsession
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 09-19-2008, 08:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO