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  1. #61
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Depends... sometimes it's just the satisfaction of being able to sit back and see it. Other times, it gives you the solution to a problem (or at least the approach to take) and that prompts me to get cracking on it. Rarely do I tell people more than the fact that I'm happy because I've figured it out. Like a 1-2 sentence vague condensed description that makes sense to me but probably means nothing to the listener. Then I run off with a ridiculous smile of my face.
    That's what I suspected it might do. Not everything my Ne cooks up I get a strong urge to tell people, it depends. My Ne served my Ti, so a good majority gets shunted on to Ti, and not released to the world.

    In a similiar fashion, Ni has no master, and so decides selectively what to give to Te, and the times when that happens is responsible for the urge to solve a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    I think it works like this for me: Ni discovery => Se attempt at physical realisation of that discovery => Ni discovery based on Se representation...and so on and so forth like two mirrors reflecting each other.
    Could you elaborate on what specifically your Se does?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  2. #62
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Extrapolation:
    Each function competes to be the one you use. The conscious functions (the 4 functions, ie TiNeSiFe for INTP) especially have the most influence. They give you urges to do specific things, different for each type. Dominant functions are the strongest, followed by auxiliary, tertiary, etc.

    For an INTP, it looks like this:

    Ti - urge to analyze, to understand, to solve a logical puzzle.
    Ne - urge to express new ideas, to be unique
    Si - urge toward stability and security, away from the unknown.
    Fe - urge to be liked, to emote, to be the center of attention.

    Interestingly, the tertiary can be a stronger draw then the axillary, because its of the same attitude (as discussed here). This is how INTPs can get stuck in a rut, not absorbing any new information, because Si is "safer", because it's also introverted.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  3. #63
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Excellent ideas, Costrin! Here's my extrapolation for INFJ:

    Ni: urge to have deep insights, to be wise, to see what others do not.
    Fe: urge to help others, to share insights, to establish rapport.
    Ti: urge to analyse, to categorise, to solve puzzles.
    Se: urge to do something tangible, to indulge the senses, to be popular.

    Note the subtle differences in Ti and Fe as they are in different positions in the INFJ's typological hierachy. I also agree that the pull of the tertiary can override the auxiliary, this is how INFJs can get stuck in "analysis paralysis", endlessly going over the same data and drawing different conclusions, because Ti is introverted and "safer" than sharing ideas via Fe.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  4. #64
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    Ni: urge to have deep insights, to be wise, to see what others do not.
    Ni doesn't care about insights themselves. Ni just wants to zoom out. "Being wise" is Fe.

    Fe: urge to help others, to share insights, to establish rapport.
    Might as well add the "to be popular" here. Overall, urge to implement values. (Or, to stop others from implementing bad values, which can I guess be thought of as implementing good values anyway).

    Ti: urge to analyse, to categorise, to solve puzzles.
    To figure things out, throw ideas out, verify ideas. I basically think of it as a knife, cutting away the fat (which Ni brings in by the boatload) and leaving the meat.

    Se: urge to do something tangible, to indulge the senses, to be popular.
    Basically, to gain good sensation. Act on impulses, etc.

  5. #65
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    Excellent ideas, Costrin! Here's my extrapolation for INFJ:

    Ni: urge to have deep insights, to be wise, to see what others do not.
    Fe: urge to help others, to share insights, to establish rapport.
    Ti: urge to analyse, to categorise, to solve puzzles.
    Se: urge to do something tangible, to indulge the senses, to be popular.

    Note the subtle differences in Ti and Fe as they are in different positions in the INFJ's typological hierachy. I also agree that the pull of the tertiary can override the auxiliary, this is how INFJs can get stuck in "analysis paralysis", endlessly going over the same data and drawing different conclusions, because Ti is introverted and "safer" than sharing ideas via Fe.
    ill do an ENTJ one

    Te: urge to be correct, to cut out redundancies, to focus on an objective
    Ni: urge to integrate meta-viewpoints and archetypes in order to extrapolate
    Se: urge to be popular, to be physically powerful and physically apt
    Fi: urge to contemplate the worth of myself, my actions, goals and strategies

    notice how the position subtly changes how I decided to write about Ni and Se

  6. #66
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    apollonaut, evan: the Ni Fe part in you postings sounds familiar
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle
    Te: urge to be correct, to cut out redundancies, to focus on an objective
    Ni: urge to integrate meta-viewpoints and archetypes in order to extrapolate
    sound true, albeit the formulation indicates how you Ni is rather slave than servant to a Te world. (also its a bit unclear to me)

    i especially like your Te, because it matches evans and mine and one aspect of appolonauts Ti. i am kidding. it matches our Te. (NiFeSiTe!)

    more extroverted people in this thread, please

  7. #67
    Senior Member hokie912's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Ni person (NJ) will focus more on a specific aspect or attribute of a mental representation of a pineapple and see how that specific aspect links to other things. For example pineapples is for eating, you get canned slices of pineapples and those typically have a whole down the center because they're de-cored, then it reminds you of donuts, chocolate glazed donuts and now suddenly you want hot chocolate.
    This is such a good description of the way my mind works it's uncanny. A recent train of thought at the psych hospital where I work overnight: a child who threw up at bedtime but then slept soundly -> bedwetting issues in patients I've worked with -> I am working on a new unit with younger kids, so bedwetting might be more prevalent -> all the different common causes of bedwetting, from abuse to medication -> whether the child is heavily medicated -> speculation about the original child's pathology simultaneous to recalling how heavily kids I've had to wake up on bedwetting precautions sleep (due to medications, mostly) -> whether if someone can sleep through wetting the bed, he can sleep through vomiting -> I need to check on this child extra often during the night to make sure he's okay. Ti checks some of that runaway speculation, but I did look in on him more often than usual. And sure, that's more or less common sense, but the way I ended up there and the reasoning behind it isn't. I often notice that I take the long way around to get to conclusions other people arrive at simply for totally different reasons. Often it's an asset in that you see things that other people don't see, and other times it's a liability because you don't see what's "obvious." It's interesting how the train of thought flies off in some random direction, then makes its way inevitably back around to where you started, often with new insights. I always find it fascinating to talk to other NJs (especially INJs) because there will be the most random threads of conversation and it seems like we always end up going in a giant loop and ending up back at the topic that started the conversation.

    Anyway, this is going to sound weird, and I realize it's coincidental and have always balked at the "psychic" INFJ description...but, though that patient did not get sick again, when I checked on him towards the morning, he had wet the bed. I can't even really pinpoint what caused the mental leap from one to the other, but it's interesting that that was instrumental in the thought process that prompted my extra concern even though it wasn't a factor in the patient's history to my knowledge.

    Heh, my apologies for offering such a specific, kind of gross example! Less specifically, sometimes I'll randomly become fascinated by some everyday thing I normally take for granted -- like, say, a subway system -- and wonder who had the idea to make that and why, and how it was done and how it affected all the people involved in designing and creating it, and what it would be like if it weren't there, etc., etc. It's usually a fleeting train of thought, and most of the time it plays out in my head and I don't verbalize any of it. On the occasions that I do, I'll usually just get weird looks. This sounds so schizo when you write it all out, but the fact is that you don't verbalize or act on, like, 95% of the leaps in the process.

  8. #68
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokie912 View Post
    Heh, my apologies for offering such a specific, kind of gross example! Less specifically, sometimes I'll randomly become fascinated by some everyday thing I normally take for granted -- like, say, a subway system -- and wonder who had the idea to make that and why, and how it was done and how it affected all the people involved in designing and creating it, and what it would be like if it weren't there, etc., etc. It's usually a fleeting train of thought, and most of the time it plays out in my head and I don't verbalize any of it. On the occasions that I do, I'll usually just get weird looks. This sounds so schizo when you write it all out, but the fact is that you don't verbalize or act on, like, 95% of the leaps in the process.
    hokie912, you've pretty much described what the inside of my head is like! Even as a young child I used to look around at the cityscape I grew up and and think: "Everything I can see was built by people, I wonder what it was like before, who had the idea to build here, how did it develop, etc, etc".

    And yes, if I verbalised any of this I used to get some very strange looks!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

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