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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default Beliefs and Motivations

    I see Fi described by Berens and others in terms of "beliefs" and "knowing what motivates you". But these both sound like they can be Thinking activities as well. You can believe a logical theory, and you can find out your motivations though analyzing yourself logically. Are the Fi descriptions referring to ethical beliefs and motivations? (Such as stuff like religion). This is yet another area where some of the definitions get ambiguous.
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    Last edited by maerzhase; 03-06-2009 at 01:19 AM.
    Thoughts die the moment they are embodied by words. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

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    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I see Fi described by Berens and others in terms of "beliefs" and "knowing what motivates you". But these both sound like they can be Thinking activities as well. You can believe a logical theory, and you can find out your motivations though analyzing yourself logically. Are the Fi descriptions referring to ethical beliefs and motivations? (Such as stuff like religion). This is yet another area where some of the definitions get ambiguous.
    They're not thinking activities. You can use thinking indirectly to help logically analyze those beliefs. But knowing whether or not you think something is good or bad is F.

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    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I see Fi described by Berens and others in terms of "beliefs" and "knowing what motivates you". But these both sound like they can be Thinking activities as well. You can believe a logical theory, and you can find out your motivations though analyzing yourself logically. Are the Fi descriptions referring to ethical beliefs and motivations? (Such as stuff like religion). This is yet another area where some of the definitions get ambiguous.
    I reckon this confusion is what causes the occasional INFP to mistype themselves as INTP. Ti tends to examine objective, impersonal things. Beliefs, values etc do get examined from time to time, but AFAIK it's only a small fraction of the things that Ti-doms tend to think about. (this is just from what I've observed in myself and several Ti-doms who I know IRL)
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Hm. They are certainly blurred.
    I constantly had this idea that Ti just constructs a model for Fi, since Fi doesn't really have a model (obviously untrue - but it's a result of which?). It's just values that have no real logical basis.

  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I like Costrin's description of both as "creating models of the universe", but one tells you "where things should be", and the other tells you how you feel about them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    They're not thinking activities. You can use thinking indirectly to help logically analyze those beliefs. But knowing whether or not you think something is good or bad is F.
    That's just it. "Beliefs" can be based on "true/false" (T) rather than "good/bad". Like you can have a "belief" about where things should be, and it have nothing to do with how you feel about it. And what does "being aware of what motivates onesself" have to do with good or bad, necessarily?
    So this needs more clarification.
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    Evidentually when INTPs explain things, INFPs frequently tell INTPs that they have never seen it that way before. When INFPs explain things to INTPs it is usually an issue of clarification in which the INTP responds... dang you're right.

    Fi seems much more able to define something out of context. Ti simply overrates context, overuses it to where everything is "relative." The two can go well hand in hand because Ti needs to remember what each specific unit has to offer in the first place (ie. Fi gives units back their original importance) and Fi needs to realize there is more to obsess about than personal problems (ie. Ti indicates one issue blocking out all the others, and indicates the need for a mental strategy or idea) Fi draws less conclusions because that is not what it needs. It needs to know the "why." Why these truths make sense. Ti forms these types of equations, and if it is a correct equation that means Fi and Ti have effectively communicated.

    Now that "restoring importance" comes to mind, I think that is one reason why the INFP has been called the "healer." They seriously have some good interpretations that most people have deformed or buried. With Fi nothing 'technically' goes wrong on the inside. Everything is consistent, but I see how much of a bitch it can be to keep track of all the emotions that go along with one's psyche. It is also apparent just why too much outer influence makes INFPs simply unable to express what they want to say, thus void of effective speech.

  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Fi needs to know why truths make sense? I guess that has to do with "importance"?
    As for "the healer", you're saying they can explain things about a person's "inside" that the person or others might have thought to be "gone wrong"? (I have seen that they can really probe into you).
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