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  1. #11
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I get what everyone is saying in terms of grayness, but I am black and white when I finally reach a decision. I can, and love to, speculate all day. I rarely make an effort to decide on something. But once forced to make a decision, it is final. You are either with me or against me. And I know it is final because I have spent months deliberating all the possible outcomes.

    Also, when debating or discoursing, I need to break things down to its lowest common denominator. When someone is spewing a lot of words, I need to ask them "Is it this or is it that?" or "what exactly is your point?". I need to see where they stand in their argument, or I can't respond to it. So, I guess that is another way of being black or white, too.

  2. #12
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I don't like the concept of black and white at all and suspect that it's WAY too narrow of a manner in which to look at the world

    I'm only comfortable working with shades of gray- darker and lighter gray, but I don't beleive that ANYTHING is purely good or bad (or purely anything for that matter)

    Black and white is for jailbirds and old televisions, not for world views (IMO)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #13
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Ti strives for clarity. If something is gray, it just means you need to come up with a better framework.

    I hate it when things are gray -- I just take it as a sign that I need to think through it better.

    P.S. Fuzziness is different than continuous functions. The opposite of discrete is not fuzzy, it's continuous. I consider spectrums to be black and white (black on one side, white on the other...it's still one dimensional...)

    Also, I'm not saying everything is one dimensional. I'm just saying -- if your framework (some amount of intersecting spectrums) cannot accurately describe a phenomenon with no exceptions, it's not a good framework.

  4. #14
    Member Sachetan's Avatar
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    I quote my wise ENFJ friend who once said:
    "If you know what you're looking for, you cannot be happily surprised".

    That's my attitude too. Black and/or white limit one's thinking. And for me there shouldn't be superficial limitations. I can't see the point of them.

  5. #15
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I compute things in shades. I mean, It's not a problem, it's like working with .01 variations in a flow instead of 0\1 coding.

    I don't think the 'black and white vs fuzziness' applies. It's only an issue when I need to explain things, and that's why I have basically two 'chatty' personas:

    One will seek the simple pleasure of speaking\arguing some.
    One will go way deeper because I will do the effort to try and translate my thoughts into clear expressions, which can really be a major pain in the ass and will never ever be a satisfying translation.

    Something tells me entps are pros at using metaphores

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Ti strives for clarity. If something is gray, it just means you need to come up with a better framework.

    I hate it when things are gray -- I just take it as a sign that I need to think through it better.
    That's because ur an infj with a pimped up Ti, not an entp.


    edit: I think the main problem here is that I and perhaps entps in general will even argue expressions such as 'black and white' and 'fuzziness'. You could say for example that in the end if there's an absolute truth there's a level of 'black and white interpretation' to everything, but then again even if you had that knowledge it'd still be like seeing an apple, what you see is just a construct based upon a 'reality' (you can't even say thing, things are a mental construct).
    And hell, I could argue every single world for a year if I wanted to be 'precise', so I can't work in 'black and white'.

    Think of a quantum computer, the 0\1 can be 60% at 0 and 40% at 1. It's the same thing.
    I think that's what Ne+Ti is about.

    Ni+Ti for example would rather be about taking 0 and 1, and zooming in to 10^-15 using different perspectives just as science uses different technics for different measured scales.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #16
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    ...I have basically two 'chatty' personas:

    One will seek simple pleasure of speaking\arguing some
    One will go way deeper because...
    Is it fair to say that EcK is a collective?

  7. #17
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Is it fair to say that EcK is a collective?
    We do not know.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #18
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Case in point: we all know that we are ENTPs and not ISFJs, it's pretty black and white. Case closed.

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    not necissarily... it's all just a theory anyways and while we're busy theorizing on MBTI we could discuss shadow functions and shadow selves and that would mean that it was quite possible somehow that we're both ENTPs AND ISFJs...

    Gray areas are what I thrive on because they give you a lot more room to think, wonder and come up with new possibilities and arguments- gray is fun, black and white is stifling
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Gray fuzz, all day everyday. Drives other people insane, but what am I supposed to do about it?
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

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