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  1. #41
    Member SilentStream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Well, a desire for (and fear of) change and openness (and closed) to new ideas are also distinctly human traits. Do you honestly think that anyone is mindlessly open to new ideas all the time or that SJs are mindlessly traditional 100 percent of the time?

    I don't see why Intellect and Liberalism correlate to N anymore than Fantasy does, using this logic.

    And plenty (if not most) of the Ss here who have taken the Big 5 had a low preference for Fantasy.

    What I find in the case of fantasy is that most people enjoy reading, watching movies, and so forth to be entertained, not to be inspired.
    That's true, most people do only watch fantasy for its entertainment value and not for the inspirational possibilities it suggests. Imagination is a difficult trait to pinpoint.

    My dictionary defines imagination as: 1. A mental faculty forming images or concepts of objects not present to the senses. 2. The ability of the mind to be creative or resourceful.

    (Def. Create: to bring into existence)

    I'm not sure where I'm going with this! Hmm... I was just thinking that maybe intuitive people actually have less need to watch fantasy films and read fantasy books because they have a greater ability to dream up their fantasies in their own heads. I know the worlds in my head are much more interesting than the ones in movies. Perhaps people who have little imagination need to watch fantasies others have created because they cannot make them themselves and therefore can never escape their own reality. That would be depressing.

    Oh dear I think I've been arguing against what I said before. It depends on what you define imagination as. I think everyone can form images or concepts of objects not present to their senses (otherwise only intuitives could dream), but can everyone form the image of something that they have never seen with their own eyes? I don't think so. An extreme eg. is einstein's theory of relativity - that is not everyday imagination at work.

  2. #42
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStream View Post
    Personally, I only know 2 people who are intuitive and the rest are sensors, so I am inclined to agree with keirsey's statistics. Out of the about one hundred people that attend my family's local church I have met one intuitive (the husband of a regular attender but who doesn't go himself). Of course, I cannot be sure of my typing abilities, but I have known these people for most of my life.
    And you know this because they verbally confirmed their types to you, not based on your speedread of their behavior right?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStream View Post
    Oh dear I think I've been arguing against what I said before. It depends on what you define imagination as. I think everyone can form images or concepts of objects not present to their senses (otherwise only intuitives could dream), but can everyone form the image of something that they have never seen with their own eyes? I don't think so. An extreme eg. is einstein's theory of relativity - that is not everyday imagination at work.
    They can if they develop it. (And everyone uses it passively.)

    Imagination is a collection of previous sights, sounds, thoughts, and experiences synthesized to form a new concept. It's not like it comes from nowhere.

    Some people just use this process more on the conscious level.

  4. #44
    Member SilentStream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    And you know this because they verbally confirmed their types to you, not based on your speedread of their behavior right?
    Of course not, do you think I could get 100 people to listen to me about MBTI, let alone have enough knowledge of it to type themselves? You'll just have to trust my judgement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    They can if they develop it. (And everyone uses it passively.)

    Imagination is a collection of previous sights, sounds, thoughts, and experiences synthesized to form a new concept. It's not like it comes from nowhere.

    Some people just use this process more on the conscious level.
    So are you saying that strongly imaginative people are more likely to be intuitive? I have to admit that I don't know many imaginative people, perhaps because all my friends and family are sensors.

    BTW I agree with your definition of imagination.

  5. #45
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStream View Post
    Of course not, do you think I could get 100 people to listen to me about MBTI, let alone have enough knowledge of it to type themselves? You'll just have to trust my judgement.
    But what if your judgment is wrong? Many people I encounter would claim that I am without a doubt, extraverted. In fact years ago I allowed my former secretary to take a test for me and she considered me ESTJ. My family would wonder who someone was referring to if they heard me described as extraverted. Back to the point, if you are wrong in judgment about these people's type in reading them only superficially, then you would be equally in error in agreeing with Keirsey from your own experience. There is no method currently available to determine statistics of type and the method being used groups too many types into one category.

  6. #46
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be rude but a lot of people who test as iNtuitive who type a lot of famous people as iNtuitive seem to mostly be projecting themselves onto those famous people or are just not really so great at typing others..

    Also don't have them take humanmetrics.
    I have had people take humanmetrics and another test and approximately 30% of the people tested as iNtuitive on humanmetrics and 70% on another test..
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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  7. #47
    Member SilentStream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    But what if your judgment is wrong? Many people I encounter would claim that I am without a doubt, extraverted. In fact years ago I allowed my former secretary to take a test for me and she considered me ESTJ. My family would wonder who someone was referring to if they heard me described as extraverted. Back to the point, if you are wrong in judgment about these people's type in reading them only superficially, then you would be equally in error in agreeing with Keirsey from your own experience. There is no method currently available to determine statistics of type and the method being used groups too many types into one category.
    I understand where you are coming from, I probably have mistyped some people, it is not possible to know 100 people well enough to be completely accurate. But as there is no fool-proof method currently available to determine statistics of type there is no way of knowing how many intuitives there are! From my own experience it seems to be around 5-10%, but maybe it's a combination of where I live and the types of people I grew up with naturally congregate together. When it comes to religious people in an organized religion that would not surprise me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I don't mean to be rude but a lot of people who test as iNtuitive who type a lot of famous people as iNtuitive seem to mostly be projecting themselves onto those famous people or are just not really so great at typing others..

    Also don't have them take humanmetrics.
    I have had people take humanmetrics and another test and approximately 30% of the people tested as iNtuitive on humanmetrics and 70% on another test..
    I think projection when it comes to typing others can skew the conclusions also. I know that when I first learnt about MBTI I thought all of my favourite people were intuitive, but I soon realised that just because we got on well doesn't mean we come at life from the same perspective, in some cases I'd never really understood them at all!

  8. #48
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    I can appreciate your candidness SilentStream, and I guess the only way that I can look at it until there is a full proof system is to say there is a 6.25% equalness across the board. I say this because "Gifts Differing" admits that many are born with a tabula rasa that allows the environment to develop their personality. This being the case, the western culture exemplifies SJ behavior, but other cultures may appear more NF, NT, or SP.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStream View Post
    I understand where you are coming from, I probably have mistyped some people, it is not possible to know 100 people well enough to be completely accurate. But as there is no fool-proof method currently available to determine statistics of type there is no way of knowing how many intuitives there are! From my own experience it seems to be around 5-10%, but maybe it's a combination of where I live and the types of people I grew up with naturally congregate together. When it comes to religious people in an organized religion that would not surprise me.

    There are a lot more intuitives than you think. You are saying you only met 1 intuitive out of 100 people at your church. It has been my experience that those sort of gatherings are very Sensory-y. You're not going to get an accurate ratio of type from a church just like you aren't going to get an accurate one from this website. I don't know if Keirsey is right either, however I really don't know why people are so hung up on percentages.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I can appreciate your candidness SilentStream, and I guess the only way that I can look at it until there is a full proof system is to say there is a 6.25% equalness across the board. I say this because "Gifts Differing" admits that many are born with a tabula rasa that allows the environment to develop their personality. This being the case, the western culture exemplifies SJ behavior, but other cultures may appear more NF, NT, or SP.
    Eh? Thats the first time I've heard anything like that. Do you have a website or something where I can find out more?

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