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  1. #21
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    The things people often use as examples differentiating sensing and intuiting seems to me to come down to education, experience, and exposure.

    What I notice on the forum is if anyone can talk about politics, science, current events, and their feelings, with any intelligence they're an N. I'm from DC so any Joe or Jane Blow on the streets of downtown DC can talk politics and current events and I can go to the theater or a make-up counter to hear people talking about their feelings.

    These are my opinions of why people think intuitives are so rare:

    Location: People from smaller population centers tend to be more like-minded than those from larger metropolitan areas. That like-mindedness is often thought of as being "sensing" which it isn't necessarily. Your immediate culture impacts how you conceive of things, which brings me to the second reason:

    Culture: I'm a racial minority and I find it hard to scrape off the thick patina of Fe, Si, and Se from most of the black people I try to type. I know two black INTJs that are more Fe than me! And frankly the way my Fe manifests itself feels different than the way the other Fe-dominants on the forum manifests itself so I've basically given up trying to find people who I typologically identify with on the forum.

    Exposure: You can be the strongest ISxJ ever and if you've been exposed to many different types of people, foods, ideas, languages, whatever I completely think you'll be more open to experience than an ENxP who's been in one place their whole life. In fact, the larger vat of knowledge Si has to pull from it begins to look like an encyclopedia of knowing virtually anything.

    Education: This ties to exposure as well, but you can be taught things like critical thinking skills, argumentation, metaphor use. A lot of what people consider being intuitive comes down to being culturally literate, i.e. "Did you get my [obscure] reference?" Yes: N. No: S. Being culturally literate is dependent upon how much you're plugged into the dominant culture. If you're not, a lot of metaphor use will go over your head. Or you'll use metaphor that is within your domain of knowledge but doesn't necessarily map to the dominant culture.

    And these gawd-awful typing threads!!!:steam: Think about this: if you have an incredibly popular movie or fictional character that everyone seems to relate to and enjoy they're probably a sensor or close enough to the S/N line for people to see a bit of everyman in that character. Ye average sensor, will not identify with a hardcore N and vice versa. When I researched correlations between MBTI and the Big Five I found studies that most people hover around the middle of the Openness factor, which roughly relates to what MBTI considers "sensing" and "intuiting." The Openness factor as has subfactors:

    1. Fantasy - the tendency toward a vivid imagination and fantasy life.
    2. Aesthetics - the tendency to appreciate art, music, and poetry.
    3. Feelings - being receptive to inner emotional states and valuing emotional experience.
    4. Actions - the inclination to try new activities, visit new places, and try new foods.
    5. Ideas - the tendency to be intellectually curious and open to new ideas.
    6. Values - the readiness to re-examine traditional social, religious, and political values.


    If I had to guess, I think the ONLY factors that indicate a preference for intuiting are Ideas and Values. Fantasy, Aethetics, Feelings, and Actions, are anyone's game. And guess what? You can score highly on those subtraits and still get a high Openness score without having high Ideas and Values scores. Conversely, you can score high on the Ideas and Values subtraits and still have a low Openness score. I personally think a truly open person would score highly on all subtraits not just a few, or rather the most important ones.

    Based on my experience I think the population of S/N is around 60/40 rather than 75/25 or that impossible 90/10.
    A very good post. The problem is that my coffee is nigh ready, and man, coffee does not wait. So I make it short. I agree with EVERYTHING you say, save fantasy.
    The S is not a fantast. Otherwise, you hit the mark. You are a perceptive lady.

    But. I do not agree with the conclusion bit. I am a Keirsey Conservative. I water my absinthe.
    Otherwise the sugar in the absinthe gets stuck in my throatie. I stick to the 90/10 dichotomy.
    I should explain why- if it were not that I have an errand in the kitchen.

  2. #22
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Well often time the famous people that are being typed are entertainment celebrities, and it could be argued that "artsy stuff" attracts a disproportionate amount of iNtuitives.

    But anyway, if I had to guess I'd say Ns comprise more than 10% and less than 20% of the general population.
    I've never seen the "type a celebrity" threads as anything more than a fun exercise... I don't think there's much doubt that public personas of celebrities, especially in this day and age, are manufactured - if not completely, to such an extent that it's all but impossible to have any confidence that you really know anything about who they are as people. I mean, a lot of these people have agents and PR people whose *job* it is to spin their persona to make them more marketable. I'm not saying that it's *impossible* to learn anything about them as people, but there's an awful lot of false data out there, and your average Joes like me don't really have many criteria with which to separate the PR from the truth. Not that I particularly care, but there you go .

    I think that your numbers are probably more or less right, Edgar, but PM made a bunch of good points. There are definitely cultural factors related to ethnicity, urban-rural, age, education, location (are you at work, or home, or out on the town?) and any other number of characteristics that have a huge effect on how we present ourselves to others. It's easy for someone who's not a member of our cultural group to get the wrong idea about us, simply by comparing us with people they're familiar with... which can give a pretty incorrect impression of who we are.

    I do think that many people tend to mistype themselves as intuitives. It wouldn't really surprise me if the percentage is along the lines of 80-20... if you feel comfortable with a hard dichotomy. I'd think that it's more of a distribution like this:



    Ignore the labels and imagine the "N-S line" right in the center of the image, with S on the left and N on the right (I'm too lazy to draw one out and host it myself tonight - and the shape of this curve is at least somewhat close to what I'm thinking ) Now, if you split it right down the middle, *most* people fall on the S side... but a pretty large population of "S" people and "N" people are actually closer to a lot of their "opposites" than they are to the extremes of their "own type". Throw in all of the variables that PM mentioned, and it becomes a morass of fuzziness.

    In the end, I don't think that it really matters very much. If out of type, you can get a better understanding of how you can relate to other people, and use it as a tool to see how you may or may not have things in common with others to share experiences and viewpoints, the labels don't make much difference. I have found Keirsey's classifications and descriptions pretty useful - whether he's "right" or "wrong"? Not sure. But a lot of his observations seem to ring true in reality.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Well, I'll just add from an observational perspective, I don't get the intuitive "click" from very many people in my life ... I would believe those ratios based on my experience.

  4. #24
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    It's tough to say.
    Out of all the people I know really well, I'd say there's a 60/40 N/S ratio.
    On the other hand, I may just become friends with iNtuitives more easily.
    There's a big world out there and while I'd say I have a lot of friends- I'm not friends with everyone!!!
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I guess we wouldn't know unless a widescale unbiased servey was conducted, which probably won't happen.

    I don't agree entirely with the statistics, as I think that there are more iNtuitives than 10%, and would agree with maybe 25%, as there are surely a lot more Sensors.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  6. #26
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    I definitely believe that there are way more sensors than iNtuitives but then I might mistype a lot of people as S based on how detail-oriented and attentive they are to things.

  7. #27
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    There is also the problem of typing someone as S simply because they lack N.

  8. #28
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    There is also the problem of typing someone as S simply because they lack N.
    Um... wouldn't that make them S by definition?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Um... wouldn't that make them S by definition?
    Not if they also lack S.

  10. #30
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Not if they also lack S.
    Does such a person exist? And if they do, are they functional?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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