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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default Process Tandem names!

    I had been thinking how useful it would be to have names for the four pairs of processes that work in tandem in the function order, since they are so integral to our type, and we resonate better with other types who have them in common. It's also useful for sorting through processes detected in tests like the CP test or my own "Lucky Eight" match game http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...type-test.html, when they end up all out of order, yet the person does appear to prefer one tandem over another.

    Even though the tandems consist of diametrically opposite functions (opposite mode of either perceiving or decision making, with opposite attitude), and if they're on the spine, with one inferior and undeveloped; they nevertheless, as one person has put it, "like ladies' earrings" where one always follows the other.
    So to come up with names, I had to think of the common theme of each tandem. I looked into making up new words, existing words, acronyms, etc. I wanted simple one word descriptors. I found some existing words, and had to put together Latin roots for a couple of others.

    So to make a long process short, I looked at these definitions of the functions:

    Se: EXPERIENCE The experience
    Si: RELIVE The experience
    Ne: CONCEIVE FROM The experience
    Ni: ANTICIPATE The experience
    Te: ORGANIZE The experience
    Ti: ANALYZE The experience
    Fe: RELATE TO The experience
    Fi: EVALUATE The experience

    So to pair them together:

    Se/Ni: experience + anticipate = prostatospective (pro "forward", stat "stand"; also considered "aspective" simply "to look")
    You deal in the now and forward

    Ne/Si: relive + conceive from = circumspective (to look around). You look around both to the past, and to all the possibilities in the present. Much less about the "here and now". Possibilities are known from past experience, so the two functions naturally work together.

    Te/Fi: evaluate + organize = systemic (short for "systemiorational", since "systemic" can be confusing because of its commonality)

    This is one of the ones that really got me thinking of this. Like in the political debates. This is obviously a very Te society. Yet Fi seems to be a bit more suited to it. I think of the dominant "organizing" forces, which organize things to be efficient, with themselves as the main beneficiaries, and despite the rest of the economy (and thus are very much into what is important to themselves). Then you will have apparently diametric opposite Fi types (like Joe the Plumber), who look up to them, and oppose government intrusion because it violates their value that a person should keep whatever they "earned" (begs the question of whether they really earned all of it, but that's another story). In these tough times, they'll even say "we all decided what was important and made our choice what to be in life (to climb the ladder to the top, or to take an easier road and have less), so we should live with it and don't whine or expect to be given handouts". I look at the whole finance issue as lopsided, and such statements ignoring a lot of factors, and I being stuck in this mess with so many others being passive like that, and the term that comes to mind is "The System". To be fair, on the liberal side, others will speak out against this from their Fi and then organize demonstrations or whatever. This is would be basically an attempt at an opposing "system".

    So the common theme of Te/Fi seems to be "system". Te aggressively "leads" in "organizing", and Fi seems more passive, but is nevertheless still supporting the system with its valuing. You evaluate what's important, and then go build on it.

    Fe/Ti: analyze + relate to = harmonic (short for "harmoniorational")
    Inbetween the directiveness or informativeness of the other J tandem, Ti and Fe aren't as much about systems. Ti analyzes to find underlying principles, and then build theoretical models to solve problems, such as finding common denominators, harmonizing, clarifying, and hoping to find the simplest formula that can explain the universe.
    Fe of course builds interpersonal connections. So it seems different types of "harmony" are the common theme of this pair.


    Of course, some of these terms may seem ambiguous. You can look at TiFe as building "systems" (theoretical or social), and of course, Fi is connected with "harmony"; but that is inner harmony. You could even stretch it and call Te's "efficiency" a kind of "harmony". But "system" is a better fit for that one. The terms thus tend to lean toward what is extraverted (shown to the outer world) of the two.


    Surprised nobody ever named these. TypeInsights named the tandem positions (1/4 spine; 2/3 "arm", which are called "rational" or "irrational" depending on whether they are occupied by J or P functions), but the actual processes occupying them would be useful as well. You can even be more specific and use these new terms with those names.

    So when I look for the best-fit preferences for the supposed "NiTi" types, who often weigh between INTP and INFJ, I can now say that Evan, for instance, has an obvious "prostatospective" preference, since Ni and Se are high, and Ne is low. So INTP is very unlikely, though he looks like it because of the Ti + abstract focus. I can then suggest another prostatospective type into the mix, ISTP. (It was doing that thread that made me finally decide to come up with the names today).
    When discussing type matches between an NFP and NTP, we can say "you're both 'circumspective' types, so you'll 'perceive things the same way'".

    Each pair of three letter Intelligence type can be addressed by their tandem pairs:

    SFP/NTJ: "prostatospective systemicists"
    STP/NFJ" "prostatospective harmonicists"
    STJ/NFP: "circumspective systematicists"
    SFJ/NTP: "circumspective harmonicists"

    So what do you all think?
    Last edited by Bellflower; 06-04-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    That was a really cool read, but what is it's significance other than a good read? I'm not bashing your idea, I just don't see where it will go. It makes sense and it organizes the theory nonetheless, good job.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #3
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    I guess I am very prostatospective and systemic.

  4. #4
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    "Prostatospective"?

    Make some names I can remember and pronounce, and I'll support this idea.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  5. #5
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    That was a really cool read, but what is it's significance other than a good read? I'm not bashing your idea, I just don't see where it will go. It makes sense and it organizes the theory nonetheless, good job.
    Well, as I explained, it would be good to have names for the different types of tandem processes, since they determine which types we are ego-compatible, or ego-incompatible with. It gives you something you can pronounce, rather than saying "we are both Ne/Si types".

    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    "Prostatospective"?

    Make some names I can remember and pronounce, and I'll support this idea.
    (I have to think for a couple of seconds to remember that and get it right too) I wanted simply "prospective", but that means "seeing forward", and thus would be a good descriptive of Ni, but not really Se. I wanted a word that covers both the here and now, as well as moving forward. Hence, adding "-stat-". I'll continue to think of something better.
    I did list as an alternative, "aspective", which means simply "to see" (ad "to"; spect "see"). Se is obviously just "seeing" for its own sake, while Ni types are often called "seers" because of their envisioning. So maybe that might be better? Covers seeing now, and ahead.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #6
    beyondaurora
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    prostatospective = "from the perspective of the prostate"

    Haha. Don't get me wrong, Eric...I really like how you linked the processes together. I just can't help thinking about men's rectums when I see that term. (Beyond, it's pronounced "stat", not "state"!)

  7. #7
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I thought of that, but figured "prostat-" would give the new prefix some familiarity. But alas, it was still too complex as we see above.
    But it does mean the same thing as the anatomical term: "stand forward", and is more true to the meaning I was trying to identify then just "to look" (aspective, which I'm now going with).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Just found out from someone who is very much into Socionics and then searching Wikisocion, that these groups are actually outlined in that system:

    Romance Styles (Romance styles: - Wikisocion)
    "Aspective" (Se/Ni): Aggressor/Victim
    "Circumspective" (Si/Ne): Caregiver/Infantile

    Two of the "Reinin Dichotomies" (Reinin dichotomies - Wikisocion)
    "Harmonic" (Fe/Ti): Merry
    "Systemic" (Te/Fi): Serious

    The Quadras (Quadra - Wikisocion)

    SFP/NTJ: "aspective systemicists" (Gamma)
    STP/NFJ" "aspective harmonicists" (Beta)
    STJ/NFP: "circumspective systematicists" (Delta)
    SFJ/NTP: "circumspective harmonicists" (Alpha)

    (Note: these are the MBTI codes. In Socionics, j/p reversed for introverts).

    Surprised that no one pointed this out.

    I had not gotten into Socionics, because of the fact that it is so similar, yet in many ways different from MBTI. It's enough trying to square away the concepts of one, the other can be a distraction. But it has so many interesting concepts (like having these identified already, where in MBTI we didn't; and also, the intertype relations), and I can see why others say they line it better.

    The same person also pointed out that Socionics developed independently of MBTI in Russia. I had thought that someone just took MBTI and decided to change it around. Even though it did seem to develop later than MBTI (in the 70's and 80's), it still is said to be a different interpretation of Jung, made straignt frpm the source.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #9
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Interesting comparisons. The more I read and understand Socionics, the more it shows itself to be a much more complete theory than MBTI. The best way to type yourself in it is to read the Quadra interaction styles and relations, find what most applies to you, then to narrow down your choice of those 4, I found. That's how I came to settle on LII.



  10. #10
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The same person also pointed out that Socionics developed independently of MBTI in Russia.
    I hope that person at least meant to say Lithuania. Or the Soviet Union. There's a difference. Just keeping the facts straight.

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