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  1. #1
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    Default Action oriented...

    I have just been frustrating myself trying to figure out how Extraversion is considered action-oriented. To me it seems that an Extravert who also chooses Intuition would contradict him/herself, since Intuition seeks to understand things conceptually.

    Example: If you are an ENxP or ENxJ, I don't see how the Intuitive preference can make you action-oriented and "actively involved in the outer world." Likewise, an ISxP or ISxJ are both Introverted, and Introversion claims to be "thoughtfully involved with concepts and ideas." Wouldn't involvement with concepts and ideas be more related to Intuition? Likewise, wouldn't focusing on the environment (that which is concrete) be more related to Sensation?

    I mean, Intuitives are, by their very nature, inwardly directed. To envision possibilities requires access to the inner world. Therefore, wouldn't Intuitives, too, be energized by the inner world of thought, and the Sensors energized by the outer world of experience?

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    You would be most correct in making that assumption about Ni's like you and I. Ne's, however, are mostly concerned with seeing connections between ideas, thoughts, and connections around them rather than internal ones. It causes them to say and do seemingly random things, and rapidly follow tangents of thought as they occur.

    As far as EN_J's go, Te and Fe would be their dominant functions. So they would mostly operate on assumptions, opinions, and/or judgments rather than perception. They would only have to withdraw long enough to come to a conclusion in their inner world, and then make it a part of their system. They don't value their Ni process as much as we do, they only want to engage it long enough to come to a conclusion/opinion. You see?

  3. #3
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I have just been frustrating myself trying to figure out how Extraversion is considered action-oriented. To me it seems that an Extravert who also chooses Intuition would contradict him/herself, since Intuition seeks to understand things conceptually.

    Example: If you are an ENxP or ENxJ, I don't see how the Intuitive preference can make you action-oriented and "actively involved in the outer world." Likewise, an ISxP or ISxJ are both Introverted, and Introversion claims to be "thoughtfully involved with concepts and ideas." Wouldn't involvement with concepts and ideas be more related to Intuition? Likewise, wouldn't focusing on the environment (that which is concrete) be more related to Sensation?

    I mean, Intuitives are, by their very nature, inwardly directed. To envision possibilities requires access to the inner world. Therefore, wouldn't Intuitives, too, be energized by the inner world of thought, and the Sensors energized by the outer world of experience?
    Si is just as inwardly directed as intuition, in fact that's all Si does is test the current situation against an internal storehouse of memories and impressions. Something is like something else that came before it. I think Se and Ne are the most extroverted functions because they need something to react against in order to work well.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    You would be most correct in making that assumption about Ni's like you and I. Ne's, however, are mostly concerned with seeing connections between ideas, thoughts, and connections around them rather than internal ones. It causes them to say and do seemingly random things, and rapidly follow tangents of thought as they occur.

    As far as EN_J's go, Te and Fe would be their dominant functions. So they would mostly operate on assumptions, opinions, and/or judgments rather than perception. They would only have to withdraw long enough to come to a conclusion in their inner world, and then make it a part of their system. They don't value their Ni process as much as we do, they only want to engage it long enough to come to a conclusion/opinion. You see?
    I don't see How did you reach that conclusion? ENJs perceiving function is Ni so that's how we take in information. Just because it's not as blatantly obvious as an INJs doesn't mean it's not there, welcome, or used. Frankly I'm not eager to become a some nutcase INJ dragging a train of soda can tops down the street ranting about their visions of Armageddon.

    If anything, I think secondary Ni helps ENJs to realize there is more than what meets the eye in a situation. I think ENJs care more about making our visions realities and not something just cooped up in our heads and we actively search for ways to get what's inside outside. Our extroversion compels us to do this. ENJs utilize our Fe/Te to explain concepts in a logical and standardized language that almost anyone can understand. It's like we're walking and talking boxes of Unicode. I doubt that any ENJ that just snatches brief impressions from Ni can do this with any dexterity.
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    Member Llenyd's Avatar
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    The EN will shake the ant farm and then observe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llenyd View Post
    The EN will shake the ant farm and then observe it.
    I thought that's what an ISTP would do.

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    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I have just been frustrating myself trying to figure out how Extraversion is considered action-oriented. To me it seems that an Extravert who also chooses Intuition would contradict him/herself, since Intuition seeks to understand things conceptually.

    Example: If you are an ENxP or ENxJ, I don't see how the Intuitive preference can make you action-oriented and "actively involved in the outer world." Likewise, an ISxP or ISxJ are both Introverted, and Introversion claims to be "thoughtfully involved with concepts and ideas." Wouldn't involvement with concepts and ideas be more related to Intuition? Likewise, wouldn't focusing on the environment (that which is concrete) be more related to Sensation?

    I mean, Intuitives are, by their very nature, inwardly directed. To envision possibilities requires access to the inner world. Therefore, wouldn't Intuitives, too, be energized by the inner world of thought, and the Sensors energized by the outer world of experience?
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  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't see How did you reach that conclusion? ENJs perceiving function is Ni so that's how we take in information. Just because it's not as blatantly obvious as an INJs doesn't mean it's not there, welcome, or used. Frankly I'm not eager to become a some nutcase INJ dragging a train of soda can tops down the street ranting about their visions of Armageddon.
    Actually, people don't really see our Ni that much. We're usually discreet, and try to hide behind our Fe or Te in public. We're just perceived as quiet, rigid, and maybe a little spacey. Only a neurotic IN_J would do what you're describing. I just sort of assumed that whatever you saw with Ni had to be filtered through the judging function first, rather than being seen completely. But honestly, I think EN_J's are probably happier in the long run. They can actually see and measure the impact of their greatest goals. Ours are internal, and we can't bring them out. So we can achieve secondary goals, but never get what we really want. It's the price for clarity of inner vision. If you want to know, I don't feel like it's worth the trade-off, since my inner visions will never mean anything in the outside world anyway.

    If anything, I think secondary Ni helps ENJs to realize there is more than what meets the eye in a situation. I think ENJs care more about making our visions realities and not something just cooped up in our heads and we actively search for ways to get what's inside outside. Our extroversion compels us to do this. ENJs utilize our Fe/Te to explain concepts in a logical and standardized language that almost anyone can understand. It's like we're walking and talking boxes of Unicode. I doubt that any ENJ that just snatches brief impressions from Ni can do this with any dexterity.
    Well, yes. Actually, I would like to make some of my visions reality in the future, perhaps explain them to people. It's just that some of them can't be completely explained. I try my best to show people what I can explain to them, but it loses something in the translation, and that's what frustrates me a little, because there are so many things I see in my inner world, but it's impossible to translate all of them into something I can explain, at least not rationally. It's like I think if I stay there long enough, I'll be able to explain it all eventually. But I know that I won't. The other reason I don't do as much is that I simply don't have as much energy. Believe me, I do wish I accomplished more sometimes, but accomplishment just doesn't fulfill me as much as my inner visions, and yet they don't completely fulfill me, because they're never complete, precise, or rational enough to be explained, and yet they're so vivid and real to me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    In recent weeks I've been noticing myself becoming more and more inclined towards planning, followed by action. It's been quite an extraordinary, and fast shift. The deciding moment was when I was having dinner last night with a group of friends, one of whom is a counsellor, who said at one point: "Spot the J at the table". I blinked and said I thought we were all P's (as we are, according to our tests), and she said, "Well, I'd say it's the one who's been sitting there tapping his fingers on the table, having decided what to order ages ago while we're all still browsing the menu." And that person was me!

    We talked about it later, just me and her, and she said she thinks all the time I spent around ENTJ's has rubbed off on me, and increased my J score. We were undecided though about whether or not I've actually become an ENTJ, or just stayed ENTP with artificially augmented J-ness and Te, due to prolonged exposure to ENTJ's, coming from a family full of Feelers, and running my own businesses for years.

    Point being, everything I think of, all the plans I make, all the times I'm sitting idly contemplating, I'm thinking of ways to APPLY what I know, what I see, to the world around me. I'm looking for inspiration from what I see, what I know, and plotting and planning for action.

    I am most definitely an action-oriented person. If someone tries to get me interested in something, they'll be banging their head against a brick wall until they can present it as something that has potential for application in the real world.

    I like to tweak things. I look at them and can usually see a way to improve them, so I tweak them. I can't resist
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  9. #9
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    My mom's boyfriend, an ENTP (or maybe ENFP), is extremely loud as you would expect from an Extravert, and especially Extraverted Intuitive, but what he mostly does is play with ideas. He had ideas about attaching an observation tower to the house, building a water slide coming out of the bathroom, and so forth. But when he actually acts on his (more realistic) conceptions, he is extremely sloppy at putting them together. So I wouldn't call him very skilled at action.

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    We should also define action orieted-ness. For example, I'm very skilled at sports, but not particularly good at construction and building small gadgets. Am I action oriented, or not?

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