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  1. #31
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    This is rapidly turning into a counselling thread. I hope she has her couch!
    (and I don't mean that with any malice)

    -Geoff

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    This is rapidly turning into a counselling thread. I hope she has her couch!
    Yes, if she doesn't listen, we can beat her with it!

    (and I don't mean that with any malice)
    Of course not -- what we do, we do out of love. (And that makes it so much better!)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    I recognise some things you said about his childhood in my own. I used to do things like cut tails off mice, nail frogs to boards, rip a grasshopper's hind legs off and cast it upon an ant nest. I have concocted some less than savoury plans and practiced the art of overpowered classroom pea-shooter research. These things I did between age 5 and age 14 with a sense of joy every time; I have happly grown out of it since.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  4. #34
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I can't understand him as a person, I can't bring myself to even try to understand him as a person, to understand is to eventually forgive, and I never want to forgive him, ever, he is not worthy of my forgiveness.
    To understand is to be able to explain and predict, it need not entail forgiveness. Perhaps you need to unfuse 'understanding' from 'forgiveness,' otherwise your determination not to forgive will keep you ignorant, where ignorance may be very costly.

    I suggest that you try to understand him, rather than his MBTI type, simply because it's the difference between a vague description and a detailed description. If you are going to put that knowledge to good use, then the detailed description will be more helpful.

    There is also a great deal that MBTI misses, such as the societal context in which decision making takes place, and the specific rules used. I think it is probably fair to say that a great deal of your exhusband's problem is that he is muslim, and presumably lives among other muslims.

    This context has far more to do with how your exhusband will behave than his MBTI type. I have little time for Islam (not to be confused with muslims), and your exhusband seems to represent the worse kind.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Well, in theory, it should mean he has a tendency for closure... "done", however, is relative to the importance of the thing that needs to be done.

    For example, my GF doesn't put her clothes away... at all... yet is particular about other things, like dishes and such. Although she is an INTJ and they seem to have a bit more flexibility in how erratic they are ( ), the ISTJ will absolutely do what he thinks he "should", and will almost always finish it. I'd be more likely to type him ISTP if you say he didn't keep up religious acts, etc that were well defined in his life.

    Oh in that case then, he seems more P, as even though he was very forceful in ensuring I never neglected my religious acts, he himself never could be bothered most of the time to stick to prayers and stuff.

    I would have said P had he not been so controling, so closed, so unable to admit when he was wrong except in pure desperation and even then it was more of a twisting in which he could still always come out in the right.

    However in all of his acts, personal determination to finish projects, he was all P.

    That's suspicious, since a major part of being a J is the closure aspects. The flighty aspect seems very P... almost the very opposite from being a J. Perhaps there is a component of ADD with his neuroticism... or perhaps the inability to integrate new information was from extreme S components and has nothing to do with the J/P part.
    Based on what you are saying here I would say he fits a P then, he doesn't get real closure for real projects without feeling forced. If we can say that a P would be so closed minded, then we could say he was a P, if we can't, I feel we are still thrown?


    This lack of bending to reality seems rather extreme. I've only seen it a few times in my life, and it has come from both SJs and SPs. Everyone does it a little bit... But his closed minded part is rather extreme. I assumed it was an unhealthy SJ trait, but it's not impossible that it's just the closed part.

    Still, the inability to go back on his previous "views" (ie: your nationality/genetics stuff) seems more SJ than SP.

    Was there anything that he refused to deviate from? Something scheduled or something more general, like religion? So not just the talk, but the acts themselves.
    He had certain routines that he followed religiously, such a such day for this, such and such day for that, but he was a very disorganised person, and never kept up with his side of religious duties.

    All it is is that he is very judgemental and can not see any side to an arguement apart from his ownm, even when factually I am right.

    I told him that such a thing as Australasia existed, he accused me of taking two words and fitting them together, he refused to even look at evidence if it didn;t fit with him being right.

    Literally 2 weeks later he convinced himself that it was infact him who told me, and him who taught me that particular fact.


    No, that sounds pretty good. The only other thing to measure for was how many positive emotions did he show (at all, inside and outside the home). More positive emotions generally means E, while neutral emotions indicate I. (And negative emotions show neuroticism, neutral emotions indicate stability). Someone E and neurotic will tend to swing rapidly and widely (and longer, and deeper!), while someone I and neurotic will tend to be negative only, normally "sour" types of people, except more reactive.
    That is how I would describe him, a sour and miserable person, he rarely showed good moods, or major depressive states, it was a steady stream of one neutral mood that could shift to bad instantly.

    His up was a persons normal day.

    I think you do yourself a disservice. Who you are is wonderful and is the one thing you shouldn't allow him to change! I do, however, think you need to work through, like you are with the type and everything else, who he was and what he did... and to do that, any objective way will help you understand without risking your considerate side. Just to be clear that I agree with nocturne on this... don't lock in one perspective (you haven't, which is why I didn't say anything... this started with attachment styles... but other views will be helpful for you).
    It's ok, I had a long conversation with someone last night, and although it didn;t touch on any of these things, it helped remind me that it's ok to be nice, to care for a friend, to be open and give a little trust. It reminded me that my protecting myself the way I have been, is actually at the cost of hurting people by disregarding their feelings, and that I can do both, ie protect and trust at the same time without behaving counter to who I am.

    I feel better about it.

    But if you do use it as a form of benchmark, there is one trait you need to avoid - neuroticism. You just plain need someone stable after all this, no matter what other factors are involved. I don't know how stable your support network is, but I think you have one here, online... But I'd suggest finding some people in your own life as well. Rounding out your life should be one of your main concerns, along with coping, dealing and moving on. That stability will be key in coping with future developments.

    And of course, all of this in your own time... but don't let it be too much in your own time... we can be our own worst enemies after trauma.
    Yes, and I need to be less of a "fall head over heels" in love kind of person too quickly, softly stepping and cautious navigating will help me to avoid the signs of a mad man before becoming to entrenched.

    I am still aware of the same advice from my other thread, when september hits I intend to make more effort socialising again with other mothers as my first step.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sahara, I have always envisioned you as a warrior -- not a cold merciless one, but one whose heart blazes with passion and conviction, outwardly fearless... or at least so convinced of her values that fear has no place in her life.

    (But I think you already know this, deep down... based on your consistent selection of avatars. I think it is who you WANT to be... and who you know deep-down you really are.)

    You don't want to let the fire burn out and sheath your heart in cold steel, which would be mostly you withdrawing from life and love (and THAT is the sterile legacy of your ex, the punishment HE would have for you, and his last merciless act of revenge); you want to stoke the fires of your soul even hotter, so that you are driven to go into the world and fight for life and love for everyone, along with yourself.

    I see a great deal of strength in you. Blaze like a sun.

    (I know this is a bit of a tangent from a discussion about your ex's type... but I didn't know where else to put it.)
    Yes, that's my alter ego lol, I may come to believe it about myself one day, but that's not this day. It's such a huge knock off of that perch of self assurance when someone spends so long showing you how unwarrior like you realy are lol, I am still recovering from that huge ego dent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    This is rapidly turning into a counselling thread. I hope she has her couch!
    (and I don't mean that with any malice)

    -Geoff
    Lol Geoff, all my threads end up this way, I see it as some sense being put back into me.

    Do you think I should request to have my advice seeking threads put together in a blog, that I could use instead of cluttering up the forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, if she doesn't listen, we can beat her with it!



    Of course not -- what we do, we do out of love. (And that makes it so much better!)
    :horor: When people profess to do something out of love, it is time to worry....

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I recognise some things you said about his childhood in my own. I used to do things like cut tails off mice, nail frogs to boards, rip a grasshopper's hind legs off and cast it upon an ant nest. I have concocted some less than savoury plans and practiced the art of overpowered classroom pea-shooter research. These things I did between age 5 and age 14 with a sense of joy every time; I have happly grown out of it since.
    Oh right well he used to torture cats and dogs for hours, but maybe that was a culture thing as he was born in a muslim country where they detest animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    To understand is to be able to explain and predict, it need not entail forgiveness. Perhaps you need to unfuse 'understanding' from 'forgiveness,' otherwise your determination not to forgive will keep you ignorant, where ignorance may be very costly.

    I suggest that you try to understand him, rather than his MBTI type, simply because it's the difference between a vague description and a detailed description. If you are going to put that knowledge to good use, then the detailed description will be more helpful.

    There is also a great deal that MBTI misses, such as the societal context in which decision making takes place, and the specific rules used. I think it is probably fair to say that a great deal of your exhusband's problem is that he is muslim, and presumably lives among other muslims.

    This context has far more to do with how your exhusband will behave than his MBTI type. I have little time for Islam (not to be confused with muslims), and your exhusband seems to represent the worse kind.

    Yes, I see that now, that it is he as a person that I should look at, but he as a person is also indicative of his type no?

    I still blame myself alot, by understanding his type, and understanding how that reacts to my type, it has helped me accept alot of things and not beat myself up about them.

    I blamed myself for always daydreaming which drove him insane and caused him to hit me often to slap me back to reality, I blamed myself for loving fantasy over fact, for reading instead of being practical, for not being able to explain my emotions to him properly when he would interogate me on them, yet in reality it's just that his type didn't get what my type would feel, it didn't match how he saw it.

    Do you see why knowing his type could help me stop blaming me?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  6. #36
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    Very interesting topic. I hope I don't turn into a dumb ass lazy wife beater.

    Anyway with respect to him being lazy I am also lazy. Well am not lazy in that sense that I can't do the work. Its just that I hate working in situations were I don't see am going to make a benefit apart from the money. I want a low risk career type of job with standard hours.

    I also don't happen to have much empathy although if its a situation on which I can actively do something. I.e. someone is getting bullied and I can stop this I will stop it. But say for example if some country got nuked I wouldn't feel anything. I actually like war and most of my time I spend watching documentaries and the news. The history channel always.

    In the situation about being wrong, can be very hard to admit I am wrong, even though it could take me a while to admit openly I'm wrong. Some how I will find away to make my claim sound reasonable. I don't mind some theoretical discussion (actually debates) for example on morality and politics and religious issues.

    I'm also never late to my appointments I'm always waiting for my friends when they give a time to meet you or call you and then and hour later they will turn up. Sometimes, I've actually fucked them off for the day, and turned by phone off and done my own thing. I don't have many friends, I have trust issues I have two friends and I don't even really trust them. I also have a major problem I'm always thinking women are cheating. This is actually not my fault really though I've seen women cheat on their husbands, women you wouldn't expect. I know one Asian woman who is an escort and her husband has no clue about it, in fact this woman is actually related to me.

    I'm quite, am always thinking I don't think its wrong to "discipline" your wife.

    So, yeah I really do expect Sahara your ex to be an istj

    Furthermore, I don't know about his intelligence to be he sounds pretty dumb actually. Because I can understand when I am being irrational and I try to correct myself.

    Also I think he was confused with you, and I'd hate that, that would drive me crazy I wouldn't be able to sit down and talk it out with you my problems. Unless if the wife approached me first. The confusing part for him was I guess the love you showed. I'd be thinking does he really love me or is this an act. I'd probably end up classing it as an act. Also if I ever went out with my wife and thought some guy was looking at her, I rip the guys head off, and I have literally felt like that. When once I had to take my cousin sister to the dentist and the guys were checking her out. It was so pissing me off.

    I really do think he was an ISTJ. I also have a question for you Sahara, now in hindsight he turns out to be an ISTJ would you treat him differently? for example say the impossible and you both reconciled and remarried knowing his an ISTJ would you do things differently? would you talk to him differently? express your love to him differently etc?

    PS. Edit. I don't keep up religious acts either, however I would demand my wife be more religious. I don't expect her to pray for one week and then not pray for like two weeks. If she's going to do something she has to do it to the fullest.

  7. #37
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    The more I read, the more. I understand your ex husband to be a dumb ISTJ.

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    This is kinda freaky. With the whole moods thing. Am seldom happy. Majority of the time I am content. Sometimes, the internet just gives me a chance to have a laugh and be more open. In front of family I'd not be like this. In fact I went shopping with my sister the other day and she had taken her kids with her. And I was so bad with her kids, because they never sat still kept doing things touching things, and I'd keep saying to my sister control your kids. And she like they are only kids, and I'd say everyones looking at us. Tell them to stop it and just stand still.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    Very interesting topic. I hope I don't turn into a dumb ass lazy wife beater.

    Anyway with respect to him being lazy I am also lazy. Well am not lazy in that sense that I can't do the work. Its just that I hate working in situations were I don't see am going to make a benefit apart from the money. I want a low risk career type of job with slandered hours.

    I also don't happen to have much empathy although if its a situation on which I can actively do something. I.e. someone is getting bullied and I can stop this I will stop it. But say for example if some country got nuked I wouldn't feel anything. I actually like war and most of my time I spend watching documentaries and the news. The history channel always.
    Yes, he loved war too, he dreamed of being a martyr yet didn't have the drive to do it.

    In the situation about being wrong, can be very hard to admit I am wrong, even though it could take me a while to admit openly I'm wrong. Some how I will find away to make my claim sound reasonable. I don't mind some theoretical discussion (actually debates) for example on morality and politics and religious issues.

    I'm also never late to my appointments I'm always waiting for my friends when they give a time to meet you or call you and then and hour later they will turn up. Sometimes, I've actually fucked them off for the day, and turned by phone off and done my own thing. I don't have many friends, I have trust issues I have two friends and I don't even really trust them. I also have a major problem I'm always thinking women are cheating. This is actually not my fault really though I've seen women cheat on their husbands, women you wouldn't expect. I know one Asian woman who is an escort and her husband has no clue about it, in fact this woman is actually related to me.
    Yes that was the same as him, no mater how imprisioned I was he would accuse me of thinking about it, or of having done it when I never had as I believed in commitment.

    I'm quite, am always thinking I don't think its wrong to "discipline" your wife.

    So, yeah I really do expect Sahara your ex to be an istj

    Furthermore, I don't know about his intelligence to be he sounds pretty dumb actually. Because I can understand when I am being irrational and I try to correct myself.
    I actually meant you were more intellectually intelligent, better with your speech, his was trapped with dyslexia and lack of formal education.

    Also I think he was confused with you, and I'd hate that, that would drive me crazy I wouldn't be able to sit down and talk it out with you my problems. Unless if the wife approached me first. The confusing part for him was I guess the love you showed. I'd be thinking does he really love me or is this an act. I'd probably end up classing it as an act. Also if I ever went out with my wife and thought some guy was looking at her, I rip the guys head off, and I have literally felt like that. When once I had to take my cousin sister to the dentist and the guys were checking her out. It was so pissing me off.
    Lol that was him too, no man could say hello to me on the street without it causing a fight, and of course a few slaps for me for being too tempting in my stance, height, etc etc.

    A muslim man stopped me once whilst I was wearing my veil and asked me the direction to the mosque, I started pointing out which way to go, and my ex came around a corner. The seething rage beneath is semi polite directions to get rid of this man already had me stressing. within 10 mins of getting home he punished me for giving directions. He was very jealous, possessive and paranoid.

    I really do think he was an ISTJ. I also have a question for you Sahara, now in hindsight he turns out to be an ISTJ would you treat him differently? for example say the impossible and you both reconciled and remarried knowing his an ISTJ would you do things differently? would you talk to him differently? express your love to him differently etc?

    No, I already changed my ways of doing things even without understanding mbti, and it became so that I lost who I was and became a shell, a mask of different people trying to please him and do it his way. By the time I came out of that i was lost, I am still learning who I am, who it's OK to be, to not feel ashamed of my thoughts, or the way I express love.

    Also I couldn't really think about what you are saying, I can't entertain the idea of him again, I know it's just a hypothetical, I just can't do hypothetical with him.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  10. #40
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post

    PS. Edit. I don't keep up religious acts either, however I would demand my wife be more religious. I don't expect her to pray for one week and then not pray for like two weeks. If she's going to do something she has to do it to the fullest.
    Oh thanks for this Sona, you are a J who also doesn't keep up religious practises, so ok maybe he is a J.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    The more I read, the more. I understand your ex husband to be a dumb ISTJ.
    Lol you find only agreement here man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sona View Post
    This is kinda freaky. With the whole moods thing. Am seldom happy. Majority of the time I am content. Sometimes, the internet just gives me a chance to have a laugh and be more open. In front of family I'd not be like this. In fact I went shopping with my sister the other day and she had taken her kids with her. And I was so bad with her kids, because they never sat still kept doing things touching things, and I'd keep saying to my sister control your kids. And she like they are only kids, and I'd say everyones looking at us. Tell them to stop it and just stand still.
    My ex used to do this to me about our kids, he would become mortified if they made a scene in public, and he would blame my lack of control inspite of also being their parent,

    I actually stopped going anywhere with him, even stopped trying to make him take me to the supermarket, just to avoid his paranoia about people looking.

    I do it too, but not to the extent he does.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

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