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View Poll Results: Do you suffer from/find that INXJs tend to suffer from closed-minded certitude?

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  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    15 13.64%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    14 12.73%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    20 18.18%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    12 10.91%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    6 5.45%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    11 10.00%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INTJs suffer from it

    17 15.45%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INTJs or more suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INTJs suffer from it

    7 6.36%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INTJs

    3 2.73%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INFJs suffer from it

    10 9.09%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INFJs or more suffer from it

    9 8.18%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INFJs suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INFJs

    8 7.27%
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Results 81 to 90 of 103

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Ok, but where is the "I am INTJ, closed minded, but I quite proud of it actually" option ?
    +1

    Where's the 'Yes, by your definition of 'I disagree with you thus I am closed minded' I am closed minded'.

  2. #82
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    +1

    Where's the 'Yes, by your definition of 'I disagree with you thus I am closed minded' I am closed minded'.
    Pretty much this. For every type, there's a functional explanation for why/how their "closed-mindedness" is going to manifest, as perceived by an outside observer. For INTJs, they're going to trust in the truth of their inner vision and convictions, because, well, it's served them well their entire life and probably has never led them astray. So of course they're going to seem stubborn from someone who doesn't understand that inner vision and typically can't even demonstrate lucidly why it could perhaps be wrong.



  3. #83
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Everyone is "close-minded" if you don't know how to explain things to them in their terms. One of the more helpful aspects of MBTI is gaining a clue as to how to express one's own ideas such that another type can easily understand what one is saying.

    Each of the introverted functions (Ni, Si, Fi, and Ti) are stubborn in different ways, and this stubbornness appears whether the function is dominant or auxiliary (and sometimes even tertiary or inferior). Ni is applying a unique subjective perspective that is unlikely to have been observed/adopted by anyone else, even other Ni-doms. You have to learn the perspective and apply it in order to convince an INTJ to change his mind. I'm less familiar with Si, but it's a similar deal: there is some personal, subjective concrete experience(s) that lead inexorably to a particular conclusion, and you need to learn what these are to lead one to other ideas. Fi and Ti are trickier, in that they essentially resist "being told what to do," where "do" equals "think" for Ti, and "feel" for Fi. Both Fi and Ti need to figure things out on their own, and you can't just tell them differently.

    The extroverted functions provide gateways to convincing the introverted functions. Thus one familiar with Te modes of communication will find convincing any XXTJ (Si or Ni) of the facts of the matter by presenting Te-style empirical evidence. Similarly Fe will apply to convincing XXFJs, and Se or Ne will provide opportunities to convince Fi/Ti.

    The stubbornness becomes most evident when one applies reasoning by way of a function that doesn't "match up". An INTJ trying to convince an INTP will be expressing Te-style evidence in a direct way, which the INTP will instinctively reject as being told what to think. In reverse, an xNTP will tend to Ne-express ideas in a (to the INTJ) random, roundabout way which doesn't emphasize the relationships between ideas that an INTJ expects, thus a typical INTJ response might be "Yes, that's all true, but it doesn't prove me wrong."
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #84
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The stubbornness becomes most evident when one applies reasoning by way of a function that doesn't "match up". An INTJ trying to convince an INTP will be expressing Te-style evidence in a direct way, which the INTP will instinctively reject as being told what to think. In reverse, an xNTP will tend to Ne-express ideas in a (to the INTJ) random, roundabout way which doesn't emphasize the relationships between ideas that an INTJ expects, thus a typical INTJ response might be "Yes, that's all true, but it doesn't prove me wrong."
    OK - so how do INTJ and INTP get over this so they can have a productive discussion? Their functions all have opposite attitudes, so it is near impossible to find one in common, or to do very well speaking the "other language".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #85
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    OK - so how do INTJ and INTP get over this so they can have a productive discussion?
    They cannot. But whoever gets to the guns first, wins.

  6. #86
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    OK - so how do INTJ and INTP get over this so they can have a productive discussion? Their functions all have opposite attitudes, so it is near impossible to find one in common, or to do very well speaking the "other language".
    Actually, Ni/Te and Ne/Ti can "emulate" each other pretty well, with practice. If I need to confer with with an xNTP about something, I respect their definitions and labels and work within that framework. It also helps that both types are interested in the facts, so there is, eventually, an objective truth upon which we agree. The difference is that my path to that truth and the INTP path to that truth are very much at odds.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #87
    Senior Member esidebill's Avatar
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    Who are you calling stubborn? Hpmh.

    My dad is an INTJ... if there is a closed minded person I have met, it is him. So therefore, by association, you're all impossible.
    "Others should not judge what you truly are, instead you should find yourself. You may find yourself in a bowl of cereal or dreaming of the unknown, but make sure it is you who finds you." - Myself


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    Thinking (T) 62.5% Feeling (F) 37.5%
    Perceiving (P) 75% Judging (J) 25%

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  8. #88
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    Love you guys!


  9. #89
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    I am not an INxJ and I think it's at least a slight problem for all INxJs.
    Why isn't this an option?

  10. #90
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    It's 2012. We have new members who need to contribute to this productive discussion with their new thoughts.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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