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View Poll Results: Do you suffer from/find that INXJs tend to suffer from closed-minded certitude?

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  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    15 13.64%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    14 12.73%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    20 18.18%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    12 10.91%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    6 5.45%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    11 10.00%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INTJs suffer from it

    17 15.45%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INTJs or more suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INTJs suffer from it

    7 6.36%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INTJs

    3 2.73%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INFJs suffer from it

    10 9.09%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INFJs or more suffer from it

    9 8.18%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INFJs suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INFJs

    8 7.27%
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Results 41 to 50 of 103

  1. #41
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I wasn't upset at all, I was agreeing.
    My crack about you getting your pulse up was based on your preemptive refusal to accept any indirect evidence of CC on your part. To me it seemed (and still seems) both gratuitous and unreasonable. Coupled with your declared difficulty taking me seriously with the signature I have, my gut said (and says) that you are in fact smack in the middle of this thread's target audience.

    But by all means, prove me wrong. How about sharing your thoughts on the poll results so far, especially the distribution of votes for options 7-10?

  2. #42

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    Can the people here who have witnessed the close minded certitiude with INFJs please describe how it happened? Also, can you let us know how many INFJs, you've met this is based on?

    I only know 3 well (and can't imagine or have seen any of them exhibiting this behavior) and I would really like to hear other people's experiences on this.

  3. #43
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    My crack about you getting your pulse up was based on your preemptive refusal to accept any indirect evidence of CC on your part. To me it seemed (and still seems) both gratuitous and unreasonable. Coupled with your declared difficulty taking me seriously with the signature I have, my gut said (and says) that you are in fact smack in the middle of this thread's target audience.

    But by all means, prove me wrong. How about sharing your thoughts on the poll results so far, especially the distribution of votes for options 7-10?
    As I've mentioned in the past, with my circle of friends I make it a point not to initiate or engage in argument. My present job is a stepping stone and nothing more, so I abide by a strict "don't rock the boat" policy. As a result the extent to which I may or may not be close-minded never really comes up.

    In a broader sense, when I am in Planning Mode I try to be as receptive and open-minded to ideas and suggestions as possible. When it comes to Execution Mode, when all of the wheels are set in motion and it's gentlemen-man-your-posts time, yes, I admittedly do get irked by people who piss and moan about what we could've done better and point out all of the things that we overlooked.

    As for responses 7-10, I have no opinion. People think what they think and I have no problem with them doing so as long as it doesn't negatively impact upon my personal plans.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  4. #44
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    I am an INTP and I am always right.

    (note: always being right does not imply certitude or close-mindedness)
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #45
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    As I've mentioned in the past, with my circle of friends I make it a point not to initiate or engage in argument.
    That reminds me, you never answered my follow-up question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    You're never argumentative even in the company of people you respect? That would make you different from every INTJ I have ever known. ...Are you quite sure said people would agree to this characterization?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    The people I respect are my bishops as opposed to my pawns. Why would I risk alienating them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    How is pursuing arguments going to alienate people who are worthy of respect?


    ---

    In a broader sense, when I am in Planning Mode I try to be as receptive and open-minded to ideas and suggestions as possible.
    Suffering from CC does not preclude all acceptance of input from others. CC would instead show in your reaction to input that runs contrary to the beliefs that you generally hold and hence carry with you from project to project. Perhaps you can give us an illustrative example of a time where you modified a general belief as a result of learning from such input from others...?

    When it comes to Execution Mode, when all of the wheels are set in motion and it's gentlemen-man-your-posts time, yes, I admittedly do get irked by people who piss and moan about what we could've done better and point out all of the things that we overlooked.
    Dismissing unproductive 20/20 hindsight has nothing to do with CC. I defined CC in the OP as refusing to recognize and own up to our errors. Do the people who "piss and moan" ever make you realize that you personally have made an error? If so, do you acknowledge it to them - or do you perhaps accuse them of pissing and moaning?

    As for responses 7-10, I have no opinion. People think what they think and I have no problem with them doing so as long as it doesn't negatively impact upon my personal plans.
    This is an INTJ first.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Can the people here who have witnessed the close minded certitiude with INFJs please describe how it happened? Also, can you let us know how many INFJs, you've met this is based on?

    I only know 3 well (and can't imagine or have seen any of them exhibiting this behavior) and I would really like to hear other people's experiences on this.
    Maybe close-mindedness isn't the most suitable word when it comes the INFJ-kin. That could be why you have trouble recognizing it. What we're talking about in the INFJ is more of a stubbornness; a willingness to stay with a point or an opinion in their heads even after the external situation have proven it wrong or inferior. The difference from their T-kin is that Fe wants to accomodate while the IN_J only sees things its own way. This usually leads to occurances where the INFJ gives its ground but only in a grumling manner, sprinkled with uncertainties. I get that from all the INFJs I know, although, luckyly, my woman is the one who suffers these traits the least

    Off topic: Oh yearh and did you know that Jung himself touched upon your theory of subtemperaments in his psyhological types? He says that extrovert are objective and able to adapt in the present situation whereas introverts are programmic and idealistic? - Eigter way, your subtermperament theory is still an asset. Nicely done.

  7. #47
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Suffering from CC does not preclude all acceptance of input from others. CC would instead show in your reaction to input that runs contrary to the beliefs that you generally hold and hence carry with you from project to project.
    I understand "beliefs" to be personal values. Personal values are irrational and hence cannot be proven "wrong" by anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Dismissing unproductive 20/20 hindsight has nothing to do with CC. I defined CC in the OP as refusing to recognize and own up to our errors.
    Given as every description of the INTJ I've ever read mentions how we are always analyzing our actions to avoid making the same mistakes twice, I don't quite understand why you think an unwillingness to recognize errors is something common amongst INTJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    ...or do you perhaps accuse them of pissing and moaning?
    I keep my thoughts to myself. Considering how you seem to feel that you've "read" me, I should think that ought to go without saying.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #48
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I understand "beliefs" to be personal values. Personal values are irrational and hence cannot be proven "wrong" by anyone.
    Let's go by the dictionary definition, shall we? Courtesy of Merriam-Webster:

    1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
    2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
    3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
    ---

    Given as every description of the INTJ I've ever read mentions how we are always analyzing our actions to avoid making the same mistakes twice, I don't quite understand why you think an unwillingness to recognize errors is something common amongst INTJs.
    Why'd you think I included the non-INXJ portion of this poll?

    I keep my thoughts to myself. Considering how you seem to feel that you've "read" me, I should think that ought to go without saying.
    Answering my questions would go a long way toward convincing me that I am being unfair to you reading you incorrectly.

  9. #49
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Answering my questions would go a long way toward convincing me that I am being unfair to you.
    I don't recall saying that I thought you were being unfair to me. At any rate, I believe that I have, in fact, answered your questions. If you want different answers, you're going to have to be more specific about what you ask. (Not using your own made-up acronyms would be a good start. I'm not saying that to be antagonistic; at this point I genuinely don't understand why you feel I haven't addressed your queries.)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #50
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't recall saying that I thought you were being unfair to me.
    You didn't. I have edited post #48 so as not to let semantics distract from the matter at hand.

    At any rate, I believe that I have, in fact, answered your questions. If you want different answers, you're going to have to be more specific about what you ask. (Not using your own made-up acronyms would be a good start. I'm not saying that to be antagonistic; at this point I genuinely don't understand why you feel I haven't addressed your queries.)
    CC = Closed-minded Certitude; what this whole thread is about. Yup, I made it up to keep from having to write it again and again.

    OP = Original Post. Not one I made up.

    That's it, as far as I can see.

    The whole point of CC is that one doesn't compute contrary input from others. I will let our readers judge for themselves how many of my questions in post #45 you've adequately answered.

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