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View Poll Results: Do you suffer from/find that INXJs tend to suffer from closed-minded certitude?

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  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    15 13.64%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    14 12.73%
  • I am an INTJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    20 18.18%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I have never really suffered from it

    12 10.91%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I used to suffer from it, but have overcome it

    6 5.45%
  • I am an INFJ and I believe that I suffer from it, but I am working to overcome it

    11 10.00%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INTJs suffer from it

    17 15.45%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INTJs or more suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INTJs suffer from it

    7 6.36%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INTJs

    3 2.73%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that practically all INFJs suffer from it

    10 9.09%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that 50% of INFJs or more suffer from it

    9 8.18%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that fewer than 50% of INFJs suffer from it

    8 7.27%
  • I am not an INXJ and I find that this is not really a problem area for INFJs

    8 7.27%
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Results 91 to 100 of 103

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    It's 2012. We have new members who need to contribute to this productive discussion with their new thoughts.
    Maybe they already made up their minds, INXJ style.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    It's 2012. We have new members who need to contribute to this productive discussion with their new thoughts.
    INxJs are known to be strategists. I believe that this is just an INxJ strategy to make us believe that INxJs will welcome new members' new thoughts, but that, in reality, those new thoughts will not actually be considered because they are closed-minded and already certain of their own thoughts.

    And nobody will ever convince me otherwise.

    Let's see. Some other bullshit type-based ideas, off the top of my head..
    • People who exercise extraverted judgment are, by necessity, closed-minded
    • Ni is a perceiving function; INxJs lead with it and therefore are open-minded
    • INFJs are more open-minded than INTJs because Fe tends to listen to other people
    • Kiersey claims that INTJs are open-minded
    • Naranjo links INxJ with Enneagram Type 7, which is not exactly known for its closed-mindedness


    Other ideas...
    • Unadulterated, unchecked, pure, raw open-mindedness is not a good thing
    • The first few pages of this thread are hilarious. We were so young and naive back in 2007.
    • Man, some people sure are absolutely certain about their perceptions of all members of particular types


    There. There are some ideas that are bound to raise new discussion on this important issue.

  3. #93
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    It's not a problem as long as you act on it and it comes from a place of love

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I have a similar experience with an INTJ friend of mine. Whenever you point out a flaw in his argument he retorts, "That's what I'm saying!" He says that even if it's obviously the exact opposite of what he's been saying.
    It's absurdly cute. And so much fun to just play along with.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    This thread seems mostly aimed at INTJs (I voted that way too), because I have not seen this behavior from INFJs. Or perhaps they hide it better.
    INFJs do it as well. I have two close to me, and while more diplomatic, they are just as sure of their rightness. INFJs are wonderful conversationalists. But unlike an INTJ, who will often debate an issue and listen to reason, even if being a complete yet adorable ass during the process, an INFJ is more likely to be threatened by the idea of taking apart their assertions rationally and get offended and then you have an Fe hissy fit on your hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    So why is it so difficult for INXJs to truly acknowledge our CC (I refer, of course, only to those of us who suffer from it )? I believe the cause of our denial is actually pretty simple. What is the core competency of an INXJ that we trade in the social marketplace? What is the unique value that we bring to our relationships with other people? Even if well-rounded (and hence possessing to some degree the hallmark qualities of other types), what is likely to make up the foundation for our identity is our insightfulness. No wonder we are scared when we perceive it is threatened. (And no wonder we are uncomfortable around ESXPs, the types who are the least likely to appreciate it.)
    This. INXJs are savory sweetmeats of insight. They are wonderful bastions of laser-intense focus and impeccability. They truly do have a unique contribution in this respect. This is why they should always keep an Ne user close so they have someone who can appreciate and laud the contributions of Ni while simultaneously reminding the Ni when appropriate that it’s a possibility….just maybe...potentially.... perhaps…. they don’t always have it perfectly.

  5. #95
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    Right until proven wrong?

    I don't think most people will start talking with the assumption that their ideas are wrong in the first place, no?

    Else you've defeated yourself before the conversation has even started.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Twice now I have posted the following regarding what I find is the most common, vexing and self-destructive problem area for INTJs (and possibly INFJs?), namely closed-minded certitude:



    The single follow-up I have gotten is from an INTJ who wrote:





    So I figure it's time for a poll. I'm making it multiple so that non-INXJs can vote on their experience with both types.
    Im not sure, personally I think a lot of people read descriptions online then decide that this type is them, ignore cognitive functions and then play up the stereotype of their supposed type to the max.

  7. #97
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Im not sure, personally I think a lot of people read descriptions online then decide that this type is them, ignore cognitive functions and then play up the stereotype of their supposed type to the max.
    What do you mean by "ignore cognitive functions", and what would motivate someone to play up their type stereotype? I hear that assertion from time to time, and have always wondered what is behind it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #98
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    No.


    I am always open to a better way........

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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What do you mean by "ignore cognitive functions", and what would motivate someone to play up their type stereotype? I hear that assertion from time to time, and have always wondered what is behind it.
    Well franky the only observable evidence is....just that: observable and in fairness it depends upon who is viewing it. I'm afraid I was being far too certain in my pronouncement.

    But an example for me would be, (and this isnt directed at you or anyone here), someone does some useless online test, gets INTJ, read's a misleading title like 'mastermind' and goes "Oh that must be me" without any real understanding of what is behind the description and theory.

    Ive seen this on other forums where someone feels obligated to be as offensive as possible because; "I am a thinker". When in reality the reason some thinkers, especially Te ones, come off as offensive to feelers is that a thinker often views things from an impersonal, logical angle and when they appear to be criticising something, they are often just analyzing it without bias, they are looking at flaws but usually not for the use of personal insults. This is often perceived by some feeling types as criticism which leads into some generalised opinions that thinking types take pleasure in casual cruelty.

    This then leads into some posts ive seen before I joined here, on other forums, where people were going out of their way to be insultive or hyper-critical without any benefit to those they were criticising, but using the fact that they had a T in their letter as the excuse. And this is just one example. I havn't got into those who feel they have to be fluffy and pleasant just because they have an F in their type letters.

    Or perhaps opinions such as: N's are more abstract and intelligent than sensors which is complete shite. I suppose im talking about stereotypes and generalisations. But these lead from misappropriations of the theory in the first place. I also remember a forum I used to go on where a member switched their type from INFP to INTP and suddenly, almost without warning, they started being critical of everything they saw, pointing out flaws and problems, often where there weren't any.
    They may have truely had the functional lineup of an INTP, or an INFP, but the point was that once they thought they were that type; they felt influenced to play up to what they obviously perceived as being part of it.

    As for the motivation to do this, it's simple; it gives people a bit of grounding and confidence, not knowing your MBTI type is a cause for doubt just like any other uncertainty, people have even talked about this themselves, how, once they believe they have ascertained their type, that they notice themselves becoming more like the description of said type. It is for the same reason that some people gain a great deal of pride from being, (or assuming they are), a rare type, the motivation is personal, there isn't anything tangible to be gained except a bit of self-affirmation and confidence.

    The descriptions online dont really mean anything...unless you do have some grasp of the functions of each type and how they work. For example, someone reading an INFP description might believe they see some of themselves in it, but like astrology these descriptions often give such generalised traits that most people can identify with several different types at once. So this same person reading this description does not think of an INFP as Fi-Ne-Si-Te, instead they see the type as:

    Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others, making the INFP a valued friend and confidante. An INFP can be quite warm with people he or she knows well.
    This also might reinforce a sense of doubt if that person does not see themselves matching up entirely with everything or seeing something similar in an INFJ description and doubting themselves, doubt being what is behind these little play acts in the first place.

    The important point is that while one type might share certain traits because of their functions, no two types will ever be the same as individuals.

    So, essentially, one INFP is not the same as another INFP. The idea is that this theory explains people and how they observe and evaluate the world around them, leading into their interaction with it to the furthering or our understanding of each other. It is not so that people can generalise and stereotype by putting others into boxes.
    For myself when I first discovered this theory I did some pointless online test and got INTP...the questions were so vague that it was hard to know what answer would be my own reaction or observation, especially since your most dominant function is often automatic in it's usage. Anyhow I read the description and then read some others...many of them seemed to fit all at the same time, I knew that was a problem in itself, then I ended up going onto the cognitive functions themselves and I actually read up on those and the entire theory itself and Jung's work. Then things actually started to make sense and I was able to work out that there was no way that Ti was my dominant function, it was definitely present, but not so strong as to be dominant. So after months and months of research here I am.

    The way I typed online and interacted with others in real life and online, never changed, my views and opinions change all the time of course, but the way they change didn't.

    I know this is just anecdotal, but if you want I can go on a little search for evidence to try and prove that this is more than just a cognitive bias on my part. Of course im not sure if im allowed to link other forums.

  10. #100
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Thank you for the explanation. So you're saying that people will identify too quickly wiht a type description that they do not understand well, and attempt to act according to the description because it increases their confidence and reduces insecurity? I can see such a motivation, and know plenty of people are cavalier with the system, not learning enough about it to put it to constructive use. I have never had any uncertainty or ambiguity in my type, so perhaps I overlook how confusing it can be for those whose type results appear borderline or inconclusive, and don't follow up with enough research to sort it all out.
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