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  1. #1
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    Default Confusion about extraverted feeling

    Ok, I've been recently struck by a deep confusion about Fe (and hence about ISTJs vs. ISFJs).

    1. I've been always thinking that Fe is responsible for the social niceties, for the honey-does, for doing what is socially appropriate, for showing external signs of affection, for not being rude, for being polite. It gives the urge to be nice and to respond to other person's honey-do (read:useless talk).

    2. I gave a MBTI test to my good friend, who got answer ISFJ. I was pretty shocked, because I have always seen him as ISTJ, with a slight pull towards INTJ. You know, he was never fond of social niceties, never done them for its own sake, and didn't respond to them well. Quite the opposite. It's why I thought he could have been INTJ (Imagine the combination INTJ - honey-does... he was like that)

    3. (I have one possible explanation. It could have been his tertiary Fi. While not externally affectionate at all, it propels him toward values of "family above all", "seeking for romance"; he had been playing with idea of becoming a priest; currently he is going to become a pilot... I have noticed this Fi pull at several ISTJs, maybe I'd make a new thread especially about it in future)

    So:
    1. Are my thoughts about Fe correct or do I miss something?
    2. How could you explain his behavior? It's ok for Fe to be oblivious and/or hostile to social niceties?
    3. Could that Fi be explanation?

  2. #2
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    A few thoughts.
    E seems to be more about expansion while I goes toward concentration.

    So two Es can have some kind of a 'clash of the titans' when the, let's say entp x start about how something generally judged as terrible is logically substainable, and the enfj will go for the social welfare and how it's immoral.
    The issue isn't REALLY the fact they don't agree, it's, in my opinion, the way their opinions will both thrive to take all the available space.
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  3. #3
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    Despite how function order is supposed to play out for types, the test is going to measure E and F independently, so Fe won't even factor into it. SJ with a combination of Fi would probably keep him firmly rooted in family responsibility, and it'd also partially explain his interest in priesthood.

    Is there anything else besides a lack of F that would point toward him being a T? Because the most likely explanation for any F traits is that his F does come first rather than as tertiary, but manifested in more of a Fi-like fashion. The functional model's not gonna fit 100% of the time.

    Alternatively, he could've been in an F-like mindset when he took the test. I test all over the place, depending on what I'm exposed to. His F preference could be pretty slight.

  4. #4
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Agreed with greed. (Hah it rhymes! ) You should get him to take a test on cognitive functions. That'll illustrate the difference much better than the normal T/F dichotomy from the MBTI.

    About external signs of affection, Fe isn't so much about that as doing what is socially right at that particular situation. Think mirroring. Fe is reactive, Fi is stable. Fe reacts based on how the situation is, Fi will always respond in pretty much the same way across the board.
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  5. #5
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Fe reacts based on how the situation is, Fi will always respond in pretty much the same way across the board.
    I think that may be a good way to test it. I don't know, I'm not clear on the difference myself.

    In an ISTJ, I can definitely see how Fe and Fi might be difficult to distinguish. The SJ attitude kind of gives the impression of Fe, but I think that's a false impression. At least, the way people talk about Fe, that's how it seems to me. Maybe Fi + SJ confuses the issue even more.

    Fi is probably more constant and unchanging because it makes internally-based decisions.

    **Fe and Te make decisions based on their environment...could we say they are "reactionary" in that sense?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #6
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    ESFPs are quite adept at imitating Fe.


  7. #7
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    **Fe and Te make decisions based on their environment...could we say they are "reactionary" in that sense?
    I think Fe more so than Te? But to put it simply, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    ESFPs are quite adept at imitating Fe.
    What is "imitated" Fe? I don't personally know of any ESFPs... please enlighten me.
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  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I can attest that Si+Fi might look like Fe, if social skills were what they were taught. The way to tell the difference, is that while they will go along with social conventions (and even preach them to you), they will not really believe in what they are valuing, may even complain about the group values behind closed doors, and their decisions (especially when others are not looking) will be based more on logical efficiency. As time goes on, they may give into Fi more, and back away from what they were taught, realizing inner harmony is more important; "Whatever works for [the individual]". Especially when the Ne develops and they see more options for behavior.

    Also, Fi plus the extraverted perception might also seem extraverted, because the perception acts out the values in the outer world (either living it, or conceiving it). Hence, "imitation".
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  9. #9
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I think Fe more so than Te? But to put it simply, yes.
    Compared to Fi and Ti, I meant, which make decisions that may seem to come out of nowhere, because their process is based on internal things. How does that sound?

    Eric, I'll vouch for that. If you're not watering it down or anything, that is. It depends (as all things) on the individual, but that sounds like a good overview hitting all the ISTJs 4 top functions.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 02-06-2009 at 06:04 PM. Reason: more explanation
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    **Fe and Te make decisions based on their environment...could we say they are "reactionary" in that sense?
    Fe is good at seeing people and emotions in relation to the environment yes. Reactive yes but more so a monitor of the order of things, like a medium. Where Fi/Ti have specific criteria with their intentional limits.

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