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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    This was the original premise of Naomi Quenk's "Beside Ourselves" (which was later reprinted under a different name, I think) -- she focuses on shadow functions of each type and how they usually play out.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    So is this Quenk book the definitive printed source of knowledge for the shadows? (Since Beebe's knowledge is imparted mainly through lectures). Is Quenk's model the same as Beebe? Is it based on Beebe? Or might Beebe be based on her?

    (Just checked the library, and they only have the MBTI book by her),
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  3. #13
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    Do these shadow types have to correlate with original theory, of say the INTJ, being Ne Ti Fe Si? or can they be the shadows of my strongest functions, which are different?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Do these shadow types have to correlate with original theory, of say the INTJ, being Ne Ti Fe Si? or can they be the shadows of my strongest functions, which are different?
    I'd say that if the model is off based on your four strongest functions, the even less reliable shadow type is even more off..

    But I'd think that your shadow would be the functions you don't use. It just makes sense, since the shadow by definition is undiscovered and hidden personality traits.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    it occurred to me recently that someone could determine their type fairly easily with just a basic understanding of the dichotomy patterns by comparing how their behavior changes when they are in a happy, emotionally healthy state vs. unhappy, depressed, and generally emotionally unhealthy.

    that is to say, if you follow the pattern your behavior follows when transitioning between the two states, one could determine their type, no?
    I wish it was that accurate of a science.
    I guess when someone has enough experience with people,
    they perhaps get good at recognizing shadows, too.

    I will say this, though, I am so critical of myself, that the way I finally decided what my type is was by comparing the negative traits instead of the positive ones.

  6. #16
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This was the original premise of Naomi Quenk's "Beside Ourselves" (which was later reprinted under a different name, I think) -- she focuses on shadow functions of each type and how they usually play out.
    Will have to look up her book some day. This is new to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    absolutely... i tend to brood and replay things in my head over and over to analyze where i went wrong.

    admittedly what i said originally was just a thought, your approach could also be plausible for the same reasons... wouldn't that narrow it down to 2 types (F/T) do you have any ideas for a similar method to narrow that down?
    Well that was based solely on observation from people around me. I find that it works well for Is... IJs in particular. I haven't looked at it closely for Es (don't usually interact with extroverts much...)

    Using that tends to give you 8 categories, since 2 types share each function.
    e.g. ISFJ INFJ or ISTP ISFP

    That makes it easier to select their type, since the difference is in their dominant function.

    Edit: just re-read what you said and realize I'm repeating what you've said already... (Experiments are getting to me)
    The only saving grace with the method is that it's relatively easy in identifying their dominant. Under normal circumstances, the individual will alway use their dominant function is some fashion regardless of what other functions they paired it with. It's impossible to block the dominant. (I tried) So hopefully that'll give you some idea as an outside observer.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I wish it was that accurate of a science.
    I guess when someone has enough experience with people,
    they perhaps get good at recognizing shadows, too.

    I will say this, though, I am so critical of myself, that the way I finally decided what my type is was by comparing the negative traits instead of the positive ones.
    How I wish as well there's a method for type like there is for math. It's an "art", I find that I use multiple methods to arrive at my answer.

    This shadow approach is handy, but takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes a while to get the opportunity to see the person's behavior under stress. I'm not the ENTP that'll use deliberate manipulation to experimentally get an answer. Although I suppose if you really wanted to, you can "test" them.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Will have to look up her book some day. This is new to me.


    Well that was based solely on observation from people around me. I find that it works well for Is... IJs in particular. I haven't looked at it closely for Es (don't usually interact with extroverts much...)

    Using that tends to give you 8 categories, since 2 types share each function.
    e.g. ISFJ INFJ or ISTP ISFP

    That makes it easier to select their type, since the difference is in their dominant function.

    Edit: just re-read what you said and realize I'm repeating what you've said already... (Experiments are getting to me)
    The only saving grace with the method is that it's relatively easy in identifying their dominant. Under normal circumstances, the individual will alway use their dominant function is some fashion regardless of what other functions they paired it with. It's impossible to block the dominant. (I tried) So hopefully that'll give you some idea as an outside observer.


    How I wish as well there's a method for type like there is for math. It's an "art", I find that I use multiple methods to arrive at my answer.

    This shadow approach is handy, but takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes a while to get the opportunity to see the person's behavior under stress. I'm not the ENTP that'll use deliberate manipulation to experimentally get an answer. Although I suppose if you really wanted to, you can "test" them.
    So when under stress, which type does the person act like... like for an ENFJ, would they act like an INFP (take out the outside 2 letters), or an ESTJ (take out the middle 2 letters) or an ISTP (take out all 4 letters)?

    Or does it differ with each person?

  8. #18
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    ENFJ => Fe Ni Se Ti Fi Ne Si Te.

    Inferior would be Ti, 6th would be Ne (for my little pet theory). Those two would be what you expect to show up badly under stress.
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  9. #19
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    What about looking at the types of people who take the easiest offense to you and seeing if there is a pattern there or not? Could this help a person see their shadows most clearly? (Just wondering aloud. If it bothers you that I did, maybe that says something about you! )

  10. #20
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    When a person is under stress, do they just use their shadow functions positively or negatively? Like would a person use.. let's say... Ne in a negative fashion or in a positive fashion?

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