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  1. #41
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I lack self-confidence and I'm a J. But I think EJs probably have a lot of self-confidence. IJs seem to have a lot less of it, or take longer to develop it.

    I can see why a P would say that Js lack self-confidence in general... because they rely on external standards for their judgments. From the standpoint of Ti or Fi, that's true.

  2. #42
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Not really
    but SJs lack intellectual self reliance. which can in some situation lead to stress for example. But that hasn't much to do with self confidence
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #43
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I feel like J's get discouraged when things don't go the way they want them to go, and when they don't, J's would judge that things rarely go their way, and that they should just give up or something. I asked my friend, who's a J, on that one..and I find it pretty accurate.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  4. #44
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    I was watching an interview on one of these boards of Feynman (entp) and another scientist who was intj. They were discussing their differences in how they determine which theories to explore. Basically Feynman was hung up on how to determine which theories were correct while the intj stated that you could never really know so he would just choose the ones that interested him the most. This description is a little vague but I think it gets at what you are exploring.

  5. #45
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I was watching an interview on one of these boards of Feynman (entp) and another scientist who was intj. They were discussing their differences in how they determine which theories to explore. Basically Feynman was hung up on how to determine which theories were correct while the intj stated that you could never really know so he would just choose the ones that interested him the most. This description is a little vague but I think it gets at what you are exploring.
    Sorry, but, not really.
    yeah I do get your point, I just mean an entp will often end up choosing the easy way out in the end or something similar.
    The ideals and the tendency to procastinate tend to be in a constant dance.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #46
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I was watching an interview on one of these boards of Feynman (entp) and another scientist who was intj. They were discussing their differences in how they determine which theories to explore. Basically Feynman was hung up on how to determine which theories were correct while the intj stated that you could never really know so he would just choose the ones that interested him the most. This description is a little vague but I think it gets at what you are exploring.
    Yes exactly. And it even lightens up that this a general problem of every rational function, Js could be just more prone to it, because its their strongest function.

    I havent still found a reasonable explanation of why especially IJs lack self-confidence. I have three direct candidates for my theory, which I could name from my friends, where one is ISTJ, one INTJ and one INFJ and they all had major problems with self-confidence. All of the three had a big mouth and the ability to bend reality the way that it works within the parameters of their own reasoning process. But a man with eyes on the other hand could always see that there is a very vunerable person within, which appears to be highly unstable, when not haphazard.

    I dont want to change them, I never tried, if they are happy that way they could be all their life, but I know from them personally that they dread their lack of self-confidence the most.

    Maybe its just my perception playing tricks on me and I see errors in a system, where are none. But I have this fine-tuned sensitivity to exactly look through the eyes of the person standing in front of me and to hear the little impurities in a diamond.

    Just wanted to put it to good use with this thread and maybe find a cause for a possible lack of self-confidence within Js to then develop a cure.

    ---

    gosh I need a beer now, all that mambo jumbo talk has made me thirsty
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #47
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    no
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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  8. #48
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    I'd venture to say that they can lack self-confidence when they can't make a decision, just as P's might lack it when they feel that they've closed doors and eliminated possibilities.

    For me, self-confidence comes from recognizing and utilizing ability, which in turn mostly comes from exercising my natural strengths.. one of which is supposed to be decision-making. When those strengths fail, I'll notice a lack of self-confidence.

    I get conflicted because experience has told me to try to collect as much data as possible before I make a decision, assuming as little as possible, which goes against my nature to just decide on certain important matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    I feel like J's get discouraged when things don't go the way they want them to go, and when they don't, J's would judge that things rarely go their way, and that they should just give up or something. I asked my friend, who's a J, on that one..and I find it pretty accurate.
    Probably this too. When things don't go according to plan or when I feel I've made a wrong decision, I get irritated and doubtful.

  9. #49
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I think self-confidence is a facet that, in big-five literature, isn't correlated with coscentiousness but with extroversion and lack of agreeableness. So, usually, the most self-confident types are ExTxs (and that's true from my experience), whereas - comparatively speaking - the least self confident are the group of IxFx. Notice that this does not mean that the life outcomes of ExTx will generally be better than those of the IxFx, given that the latter group makes up the lack of apparent self-confidence with a much better ability to get along with others (higher agreeableness).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #50
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yes exactly. And it even lightens up that this a general problem of every rational function, Js could be just more prone to it, because its their strongest function.

    I havent still found a reasonable explanation of why especially IJs lack self-confidence. I have three direct candidates for my theory, which I could name from my friends, where one is ISTJ, one INTJ and one INFJ and they all had major problems with self-confidence. All of the three had a big mouth and the ability to bend reality the way that it works within the parameters of their own reasoning process. But a man with eyes on the other hand could always see that there is a very vunerable person within, which appears to be highly unstable, when not haphazard.

    I dont want to change them, I never tried, if they are happy that way they could be all their life, but I know from them personally that they dread their lack of self-confidence the most.

    Maybe its just my perception playing tricks on me and I see errors in a system, where are none. But I have this fine-tuned sensitivity to exactly look through the eyes of the person standing in front of me and to hear the little impurities in a diamond.

    Just wanted to put it to good use with this thread and maybe find a cause for a possible lack of self-confidence within Js to then develop a cure.

    ---

    gosh I need a beer now, all that mambo jumbo talk has made me thirsty
    IJs probably tend to lack self-confidence because they're very security-oriented. They tend to see everything in terms of how it might affect or relate to them. Remember, the way their minds are set up is such that they're dominant irrationals like EPs, but all that awareness is directed inward, at the self instead of the environment, creating paranoia. On top of it, there's the pressure to maintain an outer consistency in order to limit how many things can crash into that inner world. IJs very much have a fortress mentality.

    The basic difference between an IJ and EJ, is that an EJ is mostly focused on pushing towards a goal, and an IJ seems to have the same focus on the outside, but inwardly is actually most focused on avoiding negative consequences. Even though this usually has roughly the same external results as the EJs focus... it feels completely different.

    This is just based on my experience, though, and other IJs may disagree.

    Try listening to this... I think the lyrics seem IJ-ish. YouTube - Dangerous Mind - Within Temptation

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