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  1. #31
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    No. I am not worried about what people will think of my decisions; I just don't like things hanging over me.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #32
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    hm, now you left me out of options. I mean, its not about if the P is seriously pleased with himself to make a decision. At this point it is about to get to now the J better and to see behind his brute fascade. So that in a hilarious futuristic vision there could be the opportunity for ps to not see the J as only the decision maker.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #33
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    But I am capitulating at this point. I dont have the rational energy to stick that long to one topic.

    I will file this idea as part of my introverted world. I am sad that even with Ns I cant get the answers I seek.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    ah c'mon guys I am just saying I cant no more. But I can ! Bring it on
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
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    Ps make decisions all the time I am sure of it. They are smaller decisions, but decisions. Js always seem more confident irl.

  6. #36
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    The most confident people I know are all J's. Thus, the answer to thread is a big NO.

    /END THREAD

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I nevertheless think that the self-confidence of a J on a certain thing could be never as that strong as the self-confidence of a P on the same thing. Just given the facts that the P needed 10.000 times to come to this closure, the J ought to come into a position neglecting all the facts, where he has 3 secure ways of decision-making to go. And he does not know which to go
    I wouldn't say that's true of xSxPs.

    I only see confidence being an issue directly connected to a 'correct' decision, without any doubt, in xNTPs.

    Time doesn't apply for both types in the same way. Just because it takes a P much longer to be comfortable taking an action, doesn't mean the J feels the same. If we are talking confidence, than it's merely perception. Not a scientific measure. I highly doubt Js feel less capable or certain, just because of time. Especially, long range thinking Js.

  9. #39
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post
    On a related note - I would wonder if J's lack self-confidence because of their need to control their outside world.
    I think that's kind of what Entropie was talking about.

    Edit: Sorry, didn't see that you'd cut off your thread, Entropie.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 02-04-2009 at 03:23 AM. Reason: didn't read the latest posts
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #40
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    No, didnt want to cut it off, I just cant stand being the center of attention for too long. But I need to explain my theory, if I want to discuss about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I wouldn't say that's true of xSxPs.

    I only see confidence being an issue directly connected to a 'correct' decision, without any doubt, in xNTPs.

    Time doesn't apply for both types in the same way. Just because it takes a P much longer to be comfortable taking an action, doesn't mean the J feels the same. If we are talking confidence, than it's merely perception. Not a scientific measure. I highly doubt Js feel less capable or certain, just because of time. Especially, long range thinking Js.
    Even if the time theory really sounds whacko, you got a point there. But I was less talking about the art of decision making and whether it is fast or not.

    The phenomenom I mean is more of the nature of the rational function than the perceptive one.

    I will give you concrete examples: in my country we have SJ land. So there are certain type descriptions where SJs are called cholerics. Some of them now need to buy themselves huge cars and big houses and often need to compensate for a lot of anger they built over the years. Some of them are even so flippy that you can tip them off with totally unrelated things.

    I think you have an idea what I am talking about. This phenomenom I strongly witnessed in J's. I wouldnt say a p cant get there too, I only say it is less likely to be seen.

    So what is this all about ? The choleric nature ? If they would be so sure in their decision-making programm, why the need to show so much insecurity ?

    Ok this was a subjective example. Now to a more personal one: Imagine that J having his long range plans and a general clear agenda. Why should he then be self-confident, if he never saw the big picture ? Ok there is the time thing. Time moves faster for Js, I can accept that theory, but I also now that they didnt think it all through and therefore I often exhibit the attitude that they stick to their decisions even if they themselves feel akward with it.

    A good friend of mine ISTJ, he has the biggest mouth on earth and is a totally nice fellow. Everyone would think that he is the least like to have self-confidence problems. But thats exactly the reason why he has got them.

    A INFJ close to me: she has lost the ability to feel good in her life anymore, because she runs into obstacles in any direction. She always takes the same approaches of course. She figured that out for herself and took psychological counselling to get help and a boost to try things a new way. Its working but she also says it hadnt worked without counselling.

    You see there is a common pattern. Namely the thing that you of course can get stuck inside your rational function. There was that guy, who owned several huge companies in germany. He had like a lot of outstanding debts. If he would have sold his company he would have left over enough money to build himself 5 castles. But what did he do instead ? He shot himself. Ok that cant be really accounted to a lack of self-confidence but the pattern that the rational function got stuck again, shows here to.

    I think we could compromise on one thing, because Js use the rational functions more likely it is more likely to be happening to them. What you all said about the decision process itself is true but thats not my point. My point clearly to the point is really that if you dont even try to see the big picture, you aint really in no position to really develop confidence. Thats some kind of brutal logic I know, like "if you never tried drugs, you dont know why you dont like them". Therefore I think for this to be true, you have to have the premisse in place, which says that the J generally has an open mind to things from the start. And given that premisse all Js who could lack self-confidence could really be seen as outstanding Js in my eyes.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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