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  1. #51
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SforzaRS View Post
    T is definitely not subjective.
    The difference would be that T would care about the circumstances, and F would not.

    For example, if the couple had an open relationship, T wouldn't be phased by the occurrence regardless of personal values. F would be disgusted because of its personal belief that it is "wrong" even though it is an open relationship.

    T and F do sometimes come to the same conclusions and look similar, but they use different routes to get there. Those routes are based on objectivity for T and subjectivity for F. There is no other difference.
    Ti, by it's very definition, is subjective logic; it's based on an internal standard of logic, not an external one. That's why Ti and Fi can look similar, because both have internal, not external, "values". People who are Ti dominant value their own brand of logic, but there is no defined term for them of what "logic" means - it's an internal, subjective form of logic, not an external, "objective" form like Te and Fe have. Ti has to have something make sense to THEM; it doesn't matter if it makes sense to others.

    This may be due to a difference in how we define objective and subjective as terms.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ok, where does this fall?

    It makes me sick, but it's my problem that it makes me sick. So, whatever makes them happy.

    Is that the same thing as T if your stomach actually hurts?
    I would say that if you have a strong gut feeling that it is wrong, then it is F. If you genuinely think its perfectly ok because it works for them, even if you would never put yourself in that position, then it is T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Ti, by it's very definition, is subjective logic; it's based on an internal standard of logic, not an external one. That's why Ti and Fi can look similar, because both have internal, not external, "values". People who are Ti dominant value their own brand of logic, but there is no defined term for them of what "logic" means - it's an internal, subjective form of logic, not an external, "objective" form like Te and Fe have. Ti has to have something make sense to THEM; it doesn't matter if it makes sense to others.

    This may be due to a difference in how we define objective and subjective as terms.
    I define objective as something that is undeniably true by anyone.
    Subjective could be true for one but false for another.

    Apple
    objective fact: it's red
    subjective fact: it's tasty

    Introversion doesn't necessarily mean subjective and extroversion doesn't necessarily mean objective. It just means that the thought is projected internally or externally. It doesn't mean the thought comes from the inside or outside.

    Logic by definition is objective thought. No one can have their own "brand" of logic. Logic works by taking everything into consideration; logic that doesn't take everything into consideration is flawed. So another "brand" of logic would just be flawed logic. Which could be true. Ti could have flawed logic but so could Te.

    The difference between Ti and Te is the difference between analysis and organization. Ti wants to organize its inner word(analysis) while Te wants to organize its outer world. Fi and Fe are both subjective. Fi feels they should be a certain way and Fe feels like the world should be a certain way.
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  3. #53
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Hate to burst your bubble almost 8 years later but a red apple is not an objective fact about an apple for 2 reasons:

    1) not all apples are red

    2) some people are color blind

    So yes it's quite deniable

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