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  1. #11

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    Tertiary Si people read journal articles and summarise, so inferior Si types like me can survive science .

    I don't know what people with Si above tertiary do though. I normally found it hard to understand because Ne is at the other end of the spectrum. Which makes this thread quite helpful.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    My experience with people with Si as primary is that they have a perception of the way the world is. It is not really apt to "change" -- not like having a judging function first.

    Judging functions are frames of evaluating information, the rules are set and it's the information that changes so there is a sense that reality has to be interpreted. Perceptive functions as primary seem to be different: The "way of seeing" is valid on its own, without processing.

    Ni people seem capable of seeing multiplicity of things intuitively; Si people have this sense in their head of "what the world is" and when you go against it, they don't know what to do with the challenge except reject/ignore it or else find some way of rationalizing it with their secondary in terms of making life still work despite the discrepancy.

    And they should get credit where it's due: It's not necessarily they're fighting the change, it's that someone's challenging what seems so obvious to them. It's like you were looking at the color blue, and someone else tells you that it's red, and you'd look again and see only blue... so either you somehow accommodate this person despite thinking they're crazy, or you tell them that they're crazy.

    (This ties into the "chair" example above. When they look at a chair, usually they're not seeing "raw data" like an Se-oriented person might; they're seeing the ideal of a chair represented by that physical construct. It's like everything is translated from raw data into this inner world of "ideal forms" and that's what they see. Everything is categorized and then judged by the category, not by itself.)

    While they might accommodate on the surface via Fe or Te, I've found it takes a strong persistent challenge to their held view to rewrite the inner definition of the world.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Cimarron explained the basics quite well. Si is basically about retaining facts and data. When you're remembering anything, you're using Introverted Sensing. All information that you remember is taken in with your five senses, and then you use Introverted Sensing to maintain and recall it. Introverted Sensing is also, like Cimarron said, about taking in information via your five senses and then comparing it to what you already know.

    Every person who has Introverted Sensing is an SJ. There are Extraverted SJs and Introverted SJs, though. An Extraverted SJ, or an ESxJ, uses Introverted Sensing to perceive and maintain the data they take in while interacting with the world with their extraverted judging function, thinking or feeling. So, an ESxJ uses Introverted Sensing to serve their Extraverted judging function, and to maintain order in the external world as a main priority.

    An ISxJ, though, since they're Introverted, are more focused internally on their own subjective opinions and thoughts. Their dominant function is Introverted Sensing, which they will be the most experienced using. Unlike an ESxJ, they use their secondary Extraverted judging function to serve the needs of Introverted Sensing. Introverted Sensing is concerned with the facts of concrete reality. An ISxJ will want a wealth of information before interacting with the external world with their Extraverted judging function.

    ISTJs are more focused on the impersonal end of interaction with the external world, and will seek objective information. ISFJs, however, are more focused toward using their Introverted Sensing to maintain concrete facts about the people around them.

    Extraverted Sensing is about adjusting yourself to adapt to the external world. Introverted Sensing, however, is more deliberate. Since Introverted Sensing focuses on holding a vast amount of facts and data about the world, a person who uses Introverted Sensing will adjust the outside world to adapt to the experiences of the person. Introverted Sensing relies greatly on experience, what is happening now and what happened in the past. The person with Introverted Sensing looks to their own experiences to deal with immediate sensory concerns. If they don't have experience to match the situation, they have great difficulty facing it. Like I said earlier, all users of Introverted Sensing are of the SJ temperament. They will interact with the external world with judgment rather than perception.

    Even, from my own experiences, which Jack Flak has brought up that you're not supposed to do that much, I've seen Introverted Sensing in action a lot. For instance, I was talking to a career counselor that is also MBTI certified. I spent 20 minutes talking to her about my college plans and then she brought up MBTI stuff to compare to my career choices. I outright told her, "I don't care about MBTI and I'm not applying it to my own personal choices. I'm relying on my own experiences of what I've done well and what I enjoyed, and going from there." I instantly realized right then that that was a very SJ thing to say. I didn't want to take external facts into consideration for my own decisions. It's the same with just about every decision I make. I have a very difficult time doing things as they come up. I need to take time to understand what it is I have to do and why I'm doing it regardless of how big or small of a thing it is. It just makes me wildly uncomfortable.


  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Every person who has Introverted Sensing is an SJ. There are Extraverted SJs and Introverted SJs, though. An Extraverted SJ, or an ESxJ, uses Introverted Sensing to perceive and maintain the data they take in while interacting with the world with their extraverted judging function, thinking or feeling. So, an ESxJ uses Introverted Sensing to serve their Extraverted judging function, and to maintain order in the external world as a main priority.

    An ISxJ, though, since they're Introverted, are more focused internally on their own subjective opinions and thoughts. Their dominant function is Introverted Sensing, which they will be the most experienced using. Unlike an ESxJ, they use their secondary Extraverted judging function to serve the needs of Introverted Sensing. Introverted Sensing is concerned with the facts of concrete reality. An ISxJ will want a wealth of information before interacting with the external world with their Extraverted judging function.
    Yup. One of the primary differences in practice is that ESxJ for example is more prone to adjust to changing circumstances -- along with whatever practical change in the rules is needed. They'll still be straight-forward about it and they'll still have a defined framework to work from, but it's focused on accommodating external reality. meanwhile ISxJ uses their secondary Je function to impose their inner view of the world (Si) on the external reality... or defend against the change. There is a sense of moral obligation and duty to defend the ideal inner Si world against agents of erosion and change.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Moved to MBTI (tm), Enneagram, and other personality matrices
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  6. #16
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    When you're remembering anything, you're using Introverted Sensing.
    Really? That's a strong claim. But then I guess...according to the theory, people must have either Si or Ni. So these two functions are anyone's "internal source of information," except Si and Ni put that information together in different ways. For Introverted Sensing, it could be remembering and recalling events, data, almost like a mental list.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #17
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    There's a difference between recalling the past and making connections between pieces of information. Introverted Sensing is the former. Introverted Intuition is the latter.


  8. #18
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    It sounded like you were saying that the 8 MBTI types that don't have Si in their top 4 functions never remember anything, which sounds like a strong claim. So I tried to rationalize it by saying that Ni might be able to get the same results as Si through different means. These would end up looking like two different "kinds" of remembering (if we could see inside each other's heads at how we collect information internally), because I don't think anyone would say and literally mean that they "never remember anything."
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #19
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    It sounded like you were saying that the 8 MBTI types that don't have Si in their top 4 functions never remember anything, which sounds like a strong claim. So I tried to rationalize it by saying that Ni might be able to get the same results as Si through different means. These would end up looking like two different "kinds" of remembering (if we could see inside each other's heads at how we collect information internally), because I don't think anyone would say and literally mean that they "never remember anything."
    But then what about types with weak Si/Ni? They have bad memories? I think memory is not a cognitive function in the Jungian sense. Rather, the functions each put in and draw information from memory in different ways.

    imo

  10. #20
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    But then what about types with weak Si/Ni? They have bad memories? I think memory is not a cognitive function in the Jungian sense. Rather, the functions each put in and draw information from memory in different ways.

    imo
    That's what I'm saying. I haven't read much about the functions, so I don't know very well what they mean when they compare Si to "memory" so often. The paragraph you quoted was how I figured it would all work if Raz is explaining the theory correctly, and yes, it would mean low Si/Ni implies "bad memory skills."

    Logically, it seems to make sense. Se and Ne are not really about memory, since they take information by observing and exploring the outside world. The rest of them are judging functions, so they aren't used for bringing up information, they're used for doing something with them and building a plan.

    I don't know. That's why I'm looking for more feedback. Even without it being the whole realm of memory, Si still covers plenty on its own.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 01-30-2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason: clearer phrasing
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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