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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I don't see this behavior from Kai at all. Just paisley1.

    Projection?
    I can see where the behaviour is leading.

    And yes, I project paisley atm. He expresses frustration with an undertone of aggression wich is being met, from Kai, with insecurity and suspiciousness of his motives rather then firmness and security. I have problem with dealing with this to and therefor can understand where paisley is coming from.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Personal attack comes from how I delivered my message. Usually I won't be so direct, blunt or obvious when commenting on others, even if it might be objectively true. Sugar coating~ if you will.

    As much as I hate this arguement that I'm constantly hearing from my father. His idea being that to apologise/understand something means attempting to change a particular behaviour, words followed by actions. Considering that I was rubbed in the wrong way at the beginning and the fact that I come from the UK where Irony, sarcasm and general dry humour is constantly used. I'm more likely to interpret things as so and react accordingly.

    You picked up on my smugness hey. Again, a conversation with an ISFJ starts, builds, and ends with "Sorry", like we're dancing and I can't seem to stop myself from stepping on your toes, even if I created the damn dance.

    Sorry Kai, Sorry Hmm, will you guys forgive me for being an ass?

    ".....Cause I'm all alone
    theres no one here beside me
    my problems have all gone
    theres no one here to reside me
    But you gotta have friends....."

    (The ass from Shrek is the joke I'm going for here)
    I'll be an ass again, we naturally sit on a higher cognitive playing field, describing the injustice the ISFJ doesn't so clearly and readily see.
    And other posts earlier on while interacting with Hmm. (Apologies for dragging up everything). I suppose one major problem is this: The idea that it's not possible to control the behaviour.

    Like I said, I have to learn to be patient with ISFJ's, hahahahaha, as with old people...........I can't help it, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist describing ISFJ's as old people.....it's just sitting right there in front of me.......
    Since I'm viewing his actions as not being aligned to his words, I'm going to think the apology is sarcastic. (Trying not to take comments at face value). All I can say it's true that I might be treating apologies as something that should be serious/kind in nature, rather than laced with humour.

    Fair enough if Paisley is venting frustrations, but that doesn't excuse some of the unpleasent comments that have been made on ISFJs. Once again perhaps I'm being too serious about this thread.

    Just explaining my self. S'good now.

  3. #83
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauche View Post
    Well, how could one distinguish ISFJ and INFJ?

    Tell me concrete examples in particular.
    From an INFJ POV. I have an ISFJ friend. Concrete example: We were watching TV together last night. It was a renovation show wherein aid is rendered to a family with a hard luck story. Difference no. 1 - I wouldn't ever be watching a show like that ordinarily (her house, her choice). Difference no. 2 - She cried the entire way through the show while I felt weirded out that it was slapped with sponsorships and music to tug at the heart strings and so it left me cold. (Also, watching it felt like my fingernails were being pulled out, lol, but I figured it was like bonding time for us.)

    She adheres to social niceties and enjoys them. I am mindful, but I will not do things just because I am supposed to. I do not enjoy them. She enjoys things like baby showers and kitchen teas, about the only social rituals of interest to me are Japanese tea ceremonies and the like, lol.

    She is often highly insulted if people don't follow social rules. I could not care less. A large way that she shows she cares is by being very attentive to someone's physical needs and the rules of 'polite' society. e.g. if guests are staying she will kill herself looking after them. She is extremely hospitable. I am attentive, but after a few days I'm like 'hmm, ok, you're not a baby bird, I think you can look after yourself'.

    I feel like I look through to the heart of things, the exterior doesn't matter a whole lot to me. How things appear and how she appears is everything to her. She is the soul of kindness but she always has to be seen to be doing right by others or the kind deed is invalidated. She is very houseproud... it's a huge thing in her life. I enjoy design and decorating to my heart's content, it's just for me, not for everyone that visits my home as it is with her. She fusses far more than I ever would. Her home is definitely her security.

    The way that we are similar is that we are both very sympathetic though often touched by different things. She would prob think I am colder than her because she is a bleeding heart (and it shows) for things that do not touch me at all. I have more empathy for the off-beat or the underdog who might be a little hard to feel for. But I won't necessarily talk about it. She expresses her sympathies and sadnesses unbidden. We are both very good at divining people's motives. When we are talking something like that over, we are like a pair of bloodhounds.

    Her feelings are really at the forefront of everything. I don't show my deeper feelings unless you are somewhat close to me. Everyone else gets a polite, helpful, good natured reserve. She is much more easily hurt than I am. She doesn't ever do banter but instead will giggle wide eyed and declare the other person a 'meanie' if ever on the receiving end of a joke. If they keep on at her she will most likely get very hurt and sometimes cry. Very sensitive. Whereas I am a little harder to hurt, I enjoy banter and will joust back.

    I don't know how global these differences are between ISFJ and INFJ. I am more off-beat and whimsical than her by far in every way. She is much more feet-on-the-ground, dutiful and dependable than me. (She is a very beautiful person). Interestingly though, how each of us are is what we each value - I value whimsy, she values dependability.

  4. #84
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Going with the Shrek theme, "It's touchin', just touchin'! (as donkey dries a tear)"

    Whimsy and me are synonymous, one place I am not at the margin. Wholeheartedly agree with this sanveane, and sarcastic humor aside, it is a thorough and enjoyable post. My ideals and value system are my security, not my home, unless of course you equate the two. That's something I found in there that rung true for me as a plausible difference, ie, where we place our security.

    With that last quote Kai, I was serious about my need for forgiveness, I did not intend to piss you off, but I just said it sarcastically so this thread doesn't become funereal. Come on, I'm far from being disingenuous, too frank maybe, my posts speak volumes to this.

    With donkey singing that song, Shrek then replies, "Shut up donkey!" It was my attempt at sarcasm combined with self-depricating humor. I am the donkey, if you knew the next part of the quote, you'd be thinking or saying to yourself "Shut up Donkey!", meaning me! Funny.....haha.....no??? Like I need to watch what I say......*laughter*....ha..ish...

    (Crickets)

    Ok I'll stick with Bill Bailey jokes, three blind mice walk into a bar, ouch! How dare you, picking on mice like that, they're blind, they can't see where they're going. Knock it off. To derive humor is exploitative.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  5. #85
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    INFJ-ISFJ group hug?

  6. #86
    violaine
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    ^*hugs!* *hugs!*

  7. #87
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    awww, we're buddies! Yeah!
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  8. #88
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Look at the type on their profile, silly. INFJ has an N, ISFJ has an S. That seems pretty concrete.

    If they don't have it on their profile, look at their functions. See if they use Ni or Si more. If they tend to deal with differing perspectives and define things in terms of the future, they're probably INFJ. If they're usually pushing to maintain tradition and define things in terms of the past, they're probably ISFJ.

  9. #89
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauche View Post
    Well, how could one distinguish ISFJ and INFJ?

    Tell me concrete examples in particular.
    Leave out the F.
    The dichotomy is between the ISJ and the INJ.
    The odd number represents only the odd party.
    One dichotomy does not include another.

    A fourhand is not a dichotomy.
    Why?
    Mendel has got the answer.

  10. #90
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    From an INFJ POV. I have an ISFJ friend. Concrete example: We were watching TV together last night. It was a renovation show wherein aid is rendered to a family with a hard luck story. Difference no. 1 - I wouldn't ever be watching a show like that ordinarily (her house, her choice). Difference no. 2 - She cried the entire way through the show while I felt weirded out that it was slapped with sponsorships and music to tug at the heart strings and so it left me cold. (Also, watching it felt like my fingernails were being pulled out, lol, but I figured it was like bonding time for us.)
    ISFJ I know loves the show. Actually all kinds of shows like that. And always gets very emotional.

    And all in all, your post sounds very familiar Sanveane.

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