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  1. #141
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I've been reading through this thread, and the main thing that comes to mind having read about six pages is "holy crap...there are some super-annoying, arrogant Ns/INFJs out there. We are damn lucky that so many wonderful ISFJs put up with us." I'm really not joking.
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  2. #142
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    enneagram 2 and 6 vs enneagram 4, 5, 9, and 1.

    if context is just one concrete domain, you've got si. if context is all possible domains, brought about by a process of using analogy to blend a variety of contexts, you've got Ni. Ni likes the map about the map, because the meta-map lets us reorganize our search parameters by identifying clear sub-patterns. very alchemical.

    if we are to perform abduction, or to deduce the causes from the effects (a kind of time travel), we've got Ni. in general, Ni is interested in "the conditions of possibility." we work by triangulating contexts until we can get to the imaginary center of things, which must be imaginary because we have invented a new domain for it out of too many seemingly disparate, disconnected levels of description. i liken it to the process of fractalization, of piecing together fractionated contexts into a coherent, quasi-absolute topological field whose relative symmetry organizes how to perceive the meaning of the differences that emerge over time (forward moving, diachronic time).

    also, infjs at the bat tend to hit more foul balls. straight lines are really hard for us. and there's so much more chaos in every aspect of us because we're constantly re-aggregating everything. no meaning to memorize that can ground us and stay fixed, because Ni just doesn't work like that. the waves are too powerful. and time is happening in all directions while we check out to try to reintegrate a sense of absolute, synchronic time to unify the disparate, relativistic contexts. neglecting to keep your eye on the ball.

    more simply, perhaps a quick, other-administered "are you an anime character" test would help disambiguate.

    anyway, both types tend to neglect their own story and have trouble monitoring themselves from the inside over the flow of time. in general, the lack of temporal awareness, of being with the internal, particularizable self along a path of changes is highly underdeveloped which makes us overrely on the predictive aspects of more universalized/cultural meanings and the way those are value-marketed in concrete cultural settings/games. this is the way Fe is ecological. we're a constant barometer for social dynamics that we can't help but identify with because our way of monitoring well-being is marked to compare whether the prescriptive lenses we have inherited and re-potentiated again and again are registering within ranges of health or unhealth. so isfjs tend to try to hold stasis outside of them, because there is a more concrete validity to those meanings that have been assumed so long ago, and the grammar of it all simply is what it is, whereas infjs tend to try to slough their way back to the origin again and again, the whole questing thing, to figure out where the center is in the multiverse, to try to contextualize functional value across disparate populations needing constant reaggregation, to become self-conscious of evolution in process and contribute to a wider-ranging update of the various operating systems that need to be reconfigured.

    the enneagram is like a prism that organizes the qualitative sites and their respective scales through which this kind of deliberative function plays itself out. Ni is the most abstract, but, say, 1 vs 5 is pretty different because e1 is using abstract means to model concrete problems requiring coordinated social action whereas 5 is building an interpreter for the various codes of the cosmos.
    What if you're a type 6 INFJ like me?
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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is more an INTP thing than a Ti thing: INTP's tert and inf are Si and Fe. They get rather ISFJ-ish in later life.
    So ISTPs get more INFJ as they get older. I can see myself taking on certain INFJ traits as I get older. I dont really think I will ever get rid of my STP side to the point where I become more like anothe typer. I have been pretty much the same way since I was young. When I get stressed I can become grumpy, but I try to avoid that. I am usually laid back and easy going most of the time. Others people can bring out my J side more then time itself does.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #144
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I've been reading through this thread, and the main thing that comes to mind having read about six pages is "holy crap...there are some super-annoying, arrogant Ns/INFJs out there. We are damn lucky that so many wonderful ISFJs put up with us." I'm really not joking.
    There was only one that struck me that way and he's long gone now.

  5. #145
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    There was only one that struck me that way and he's long gone now.
    True, but my impression is this kind of thing isn't as isolated as it should be. :S
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  6. #146
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I should say I really enjoy both types. Two romantic relationships with ISFJ and two very close INFJ friends. INFJs tend to sweat the small stuff more. They latch onto something and they fixate. Their emotions are more visibly invested in what troubles them. ISFJs don't seem to have that inward fixation. Or maybe they hide it better. They are more likely to express it outwardly and in a broader way.

    Wow. This is really hard to express properly.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  7. #147
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    ISFJs pay attention to clean the house every day, INFJs don't.

    Just kidding. My mom is an ISFJ, and although we can be fairly similar there are some spot ons:

    - It's easier to see an ISFJ talking about day-to-day details;
    - ISFJs seem to be more shy than INFJs (chart-the-couse vs. behind-the-scenes temperament thing, I think);
    - ISFJs are better followers, INFJs better lone forces or leaders;
    - INFJs engage more in creative/ abstract things, ISFJs prefer practical hands-on things and may not have patience with long abstract conversations;
    - INFJs seems more "rebellious" (non-conformists) than ISFJs due to Ni;

  8. #148
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I'm only going off of what I know about my ISFJ sister and comparing it to myself, so I don't know if this will translate across all people of each type.

    Sis (ISFJ): Seems soft and gooey outside, but has a tough inner core.
    Me (INFJ): Seems tough on the outside, but has a soft and gooey inner core.

    Sis: Doesn't talk as much, except when it comes to listing the day's events and more practical subjects. She keeps her opinions to herself most of the time.
    Me: Talks a lot about non-essentials such as music, film, etc., and talks about emotions rather than events. (It's not that sis can't converse about these things also, it's just that she rarely chooses to focus on them.)

    Sis: Focuses more on the process than on the people. That might sound bad, but it's not. She is much better at discipline than I am because she is focusing on the process over feelings. It's not that she doesn't consider feelings, but they are secondary. She's a kind disciplinarian. Or, another example would be putting on a good party. For her, if you get all the processes of a good party in place, the people will enjoy themselves.
    Me: Focuses more on the individual than the process. In the case of discipline, I understand the process and it's benefits, but focus on the feelings of the person being disciplined, which makes it difficult to do a good job at times. I'm a wishy-washy disciplinarian. For the party example, I would tailor my processes to the people who are coming to the party. If the people are enjoying themselves, then it's a good party.

    Sis: More rooted in tradition.
    Me: More speculation about the future.

    Sis: Her house is immaculate and everything has its place.
    Me: My house is clean, but certain areas are unorganized. Although I would love for everything to have its place, it ends up low on the priority list when it comes to doing it.

    Sis: Gets things done.
    Me: Plans things endlessly before getting them done.

    ETA:
    Sis: Outstanding with finances and being frugal. When necessary, she can wring the worth out of every penny.
    Me: Okay with finances, but not as disciplined.

    ETA#2:
    Sis: Slow to adopt new technology. Will learn what is necessary or useful.
    Me: Not an early adopter, but once the initial bugs are out, am enthusiastic about most new technology and will learn even the stuff that's not useful to me.

    Sis: Outwardly, very calm and doesn't show much extreme emotion. Low-key.
    Me: Outwardly, can seem calm, but will also show extreme emotion.
    Johari / Nohari

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  9. #149
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Does all that apply to both male and female IxFJs? I'm sort of interested in seeing the distinctions in men, considering the cultural expectations...
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  10. #150
    Señora Member Elfa's Avatar
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    What I noticed of people I know:

    The person I know that is an ISFJ is very caring, isn't good at expressing emotions, is very detailed when talking about something. I have the impression she puts a smile on her face even when feeling down, and she's always actively trying to cheer up everyone's day.

    About two INFJs: they looove being the center of attention in a small group of people, and are good storytellers: they speak about events in their lives in a very dramatic way - they even might skip some details or focus a lot in others for the sake of causing effect in the listeners. They also tend to talk a lot about other people. About one of the INFJs: When not interested in a conversation topic, she makes very clear she isn't content - she may say we shouldn't be speaking about it because it's boring, or might completely withdraw from the talk. While the ISFJ is usually trying to catch up with the group, even if only paying attention to what is being said.

    A funny thing is that I had great abstract conversations with this ISFJ. I don't remember having abstract conversations with the INFJs...

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