Ladypinkington, hit the nail on the head!! Wow! Well said!
The less time I spend with an ISFJ, the better! I have great difficulty with them, as they usually rub me the wrong way, as I find a general "fakery" about them, not all, but most.
I find their sense of loyalty to be insane, to the point of covering up the tracks of their friends who've possibily committed a crime and insulted their own family, if the bond is strong enough. Just think of any nurse who's given you an IV, she was probably an ISFJ. Willing to go the extra mile and follow orders and please everyone, but at what cost to your self respect??? Why can't you guys just be yourself, why is the herd so bloody important to you? At the same time, they have a horrible time expressing how they feel. In a relationship, it's gone beyond,the old adge (which they like), "do as I say, not as I do" and is now at, "do as I think, not as I say"!!! They're the teachers that drive you nutty, and often, do not think outside the box and can't see brilliance if it came up and shot them in the face. The guys are the worsed I'd say, and in the extreme cases, live with a false front, because they have to act like the norm, rather than be themself. The ones who've honed their inferior traits, they are unstoppable forces of nature, able to lead, because they really do know the attitude of the herd. That said, the ISFJ drives me nuts, and more often then not, I do not like or appreciate their sense of humor, not to mention the deer in the headlights look when I've explained something to them that I find simple, or the fake laughing at a joke that they didn't really get or understand.
As an INFJ male, I look at the billion or so ISFJ's out there, wondering, "Ok, now what was the point of that?" They are the ones I have to be nicer to, and be patient with, over and over.
ISFJ's are the reason all the CSI's and Law and Order's, do so well on TV, just keeping the status quo and enjoy all that tactile investigation. LOL!
I usually recognize INFJ vs ISFJ intuitively, just by talking to them -- the N thing is very powerful, I usually immediately can tell whether I'm talking to someone who sees various possibilities vs someone who sees a tried-and-true way of doing things. With INFJs, I can immediately leap from topic to topic or discuss it conceptually and they totally follow and can lead in return; ISFJs get bored very quickly if things stay conceptual.
(INFJs are remarkably good at seeing other viewpoints; ISFJs are very good at seeing the one they are immersed in and making things conform to it. And when it comes to relating, you'll see INFJs connect more through intuition and communicating that insight, while ISFJs have more direct sympathy without necessarily understanding someone else's view or speaking their language.)
but if you just look at the external, it can get a little confusing. Both are skilled with Fe when mature, and both tend to offer practical and tangible types of support -- INFJs don't necessarily get all esoteric or abstracted just because they are core intuitives, they tend to manifest their intuition through the same sort of things that ISFJs do. However, you will find ISFJs more sticking with the tried and true and providing tangible things to others based on their experience of what works and what doesn't (so the more conventional shows of feeling), whereas INFJs seem to have more a sixth sense of what someone wants or needs without being able to explain it or having past experience to reference.
Just some ideas...
Originally Posted by tibby
I've known one ISFJ for 19 years, and...
I've noticed she's really touched by stories, e.g. news / tv and such. She needs to talk about these things to smbd all the time, and she gets really involved with these peoples / animals stories even though she doesn't know them personally.
(I don't really get emotionally involved with news stories, nor do I seek information about those)
She also expresses a lot of concern with status and how people / things look like. Sometimes I've called her Bree from the Desperate Housewives jokingly
She's way more practical than me (and more self-sacrificing in this sense, she does a lot of stuff for her close ones).
She is usually very assertive and out-going in social settings.
She does speak faster.
She is very competetive and doesn't want to be friends with people that are "smarter" than her She likes feeling "superior". Or then being with people who are by some standards "popular". (whereas I like being around people that are smarter for the stimulation and challenge, and/or some way interesting, random people. I'd guess you won't find INFJ playing social games and trying delibaretely please anyone to achieve something)
She gets bored with talking about something very fast (I could go on forever about whatever topics and create new ones and talk abt hypothetical alternatives etc)
ISFJs are overly kind-natured
ISFJs take care of people in practical ways and by being there, giving their time and making tremendous efforts for their families.
INFJs give therapy.
Originally Posted by paisley1
Hahaha, us INFJ's already see the picture in our minds, therefore no recreation is necessary. We often have YOUR picture in our minds long before you've finished describing it, that's why we'd rather you preface your sentence with, the point of what I'm about to tell you is _________, and then explain the details. We'll meet you halfway through the recreation. We'd like to avoid a lot of unnecessary verbosity because of our well developed intuitive abstact cognition. It's a weakness INFJ's have with you, because we can become very smug and condescending and finish your points before you. Like I said, I have to learn to be patient with ISFJ's, hahahahaha, as with old people...........I can't help it, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist describing ISFJ's as old people.....it's just sitting right there in front of me.......
Originally Posted by paisley1
Ahh, finally someone resonates with what I'm saying. We do clash with ISFJ's. Yes, I have the same problem, I create tension and have to learn to back down and be patient and listen to ISFJ's. A real lesson in patience for me.
Very true, ISFJ's have an uncanny ability to process minutia. Quite right.
Originally Posted by Annwn
This set of assumptions can easily lead to conclusions based on self projection and imagination. A danger in considering oneself "intuitive" is to jump to conclusions, and then set up situations to become self fulfilling prophecies regardless of the reality of the situation.
Approaching social situations with a declaration of having a great deal of insight over what others are thinking suggests a fear or deeper sense of being lost in relation to others. Telling someone you can easily be inside their head makes them feel a sense of intrusion and loss of control over their personal boundaries. There can be a variety of motivations for someone to try to make other people feel this way. Some are obvious, others less so.
Originally Posted by Kyrielle
Most of the time, I'm quite wrong in my assumptions as to what someone else is thinking. There are very few people in which they say to me, "Get out of my head!" and that's usually only because we both happened to be coming to similar conclusions because we were both on the same wavelength with an issue. I am not in their head, not at all, I am, instead, thinking the same thing they are because they must have the same mental tendencies as I do for that one topic. It is just a matter of one of us saying it first and saying it the clearest.
Originally Posted by Annwn
What you are describing is one of the worst kinds of intrusion. The person who claims insight without effort and without demonstrating that skill is unlikely to possess it. Even though it can be a natural human tendency to simplify the world around us by making assumptions and imposing various stereotypes, more accurate insight requires a healthy level of respect for the complexity and uniqueness of each individual that is encountered. The person who is going to have the most insight will have both a natural tendency towards perceiving and analyzing thoughts and behavior, but also will put tremendous effort through an ongoing desire to continually learn. People are dynamic systems in a constant state of change. It requires a deep openness to respond to this continual evolution. The quickest way to lose the ability to understand other people in a meaningful way is to assume they are on a lower plane than self (boring, shallow, etc.) and therefore easier to comprehend. That assumption demonstrates an inability to see much detail and nuance in others. All that is perceived is something less than self, something less than the human being the person actually is.
Agree with quite a bit of what was said in these quotes.
INFJs will tend to read into what you say -- which is great if you're a fellow N who's looking to be understood, because you'll be somewhere on the same wavelength. Sometimes, though, INFJs will know you so well that they think they can tell when you're lying or fooling yourself. I once dated an INFJ, and we used to get into these ridiculous, incredibly frustrating conversations in which I'd have to try to convince him that yes, I really did feel X, and I really did NOT feel Y. He'd also get bored and resentful when I just wanted to run some uneventful errands without talking about my feelings the whole time! We did have some really interesting conversations about what some other person might have been feeling, or what their motivation might have been. Basically, I really appreciate INFJs' empathy and insight, but I don't think I could deal with having THAT much invasion into my supposed head-space again, at least not in a romantic relationship.
The ISFJ who I'm now dating actually takes me at my word, and he doesn't mind focusing on the here-and-now, and it's wonderful! I mean, yes, I'm an N, but it's nice to be able to go outside and just enjoy the scenery.