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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default How to agonize people

    Lets start with the SJs...

    ISTJ...

    --Ride around tangents and speak in abstractions
    --Always avoid using facts and concrete statements..
    --When they ask you to tone it down..just say ''what..whats your problem..not concrete enough...what do you mean I live in a world that doesnt exist..just b/c you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt exist"
    --Speak in verbose and convoluted sentences..
    --Never be definitive in what you say...(mention something along the lines of those dots that i have in there to make sure they understand that everythign you say is open ended and could be changed by you on whim any minute now.)...again be very vague and dont talk about specifics enough never let them gather the concrete information they need in order to understand what you're saying...
    --When beginning a discussion with them make sure you insinuate many topics...many that are obvious you would not be coming back to again...just mention those ideas for the sake of starting a discussion about them while making it obvious to the ISTJ that you do not care to come up with a concrete definition for any of them..show what practical use this all has..or how its all going to find closure...
    --Also if communicating in writing, deliberately violate rules of punctuation and dont worry about typos, maybe just because of all the typos you have in there, never mind butchering grammatics..they will not be able to understand what you're saying..as Dominant Introverted Perceiving people(Si)..ISTJs find it very important to collect information thoroughly and accurately and you communicating in a way that only is it too vague and abstract for their concrete minds to incept, but also presented in a way that they wouldnt grasp for the life of them even if it was as concrete as it could be!

    Be as informal and irreverent in communication with them as possible..use a lot of slang..

    Pull practical jokes every chance you get and make it a point to habitually say things just for shock value. Focus on whatever runs contrary to the conventional wisdom.


    Ringing phrases..

    What the hell do you mean what good is it..dont you know of how a student of Plato's once asked him what he has to gain from his mathematics and Plato right the next instance turned to his servant and said--Give this man a coin so he may feel like he has gained something from me, and then expell him..

    There are no hard rules to live by, only abstract principles, you cant learn them by route, you can only access them with your imagination

    There is no winner in an argument, only a person you cooperate with to learn and learning is an end in itself, there is no concrete goal for you to look for.

    What do you mean philosophy is frustrating and you just want to bang your head at the thought of all these questions you'll never answer...You ask questions not to get answers but so you can ask more questions, you do philosophy only to increase your level of curiosity, for no other purpose...

    What do you mean you cant go out because your grass isnt cut and your checkbook isnt balanced.. lets think big picture man...





    ESTJ

    Focus on the needs of the invidiual, organizational tasks and institutions dont matter, it only matters if the person in consideration feels good.

    Put off chores and when forced to do them, perform half-assed.

    Act illogically and make sure that everything you claim as grounds for your decisions is based only on a feeling. Contradict yourself while telling them about your plans for the near future.

    Again, make it clear to them that you do not care to bring about order to society.


    ESFJ

    Be as impersonal and theoretical in communication with them

    Let them know that you dont care for how anybody feels and them the least and you will only do what makes sense

    Demand that they recant their irrational values and personal prejudices lest they are able to justify them with hard logic

    ISFJ

    Same as with the ISTJ, except when encouraging them to ride tangents make it clear that you're not buying anything they say unless they back it up with hard logic...'your feelings require logic for legitimation"


    ESTP

    Emphasize the need for careful planning and the need to gather insight into what distant future may be like and the need to just sit and think...

    Accuse them of being thoughtless and irrational because they always want to be on the go...

    Tell them that they do and always will have limitations whether they like it or not and their life isnt going to be all about heavenly cherry picking..they're soon enough going to have to settle down and do some long-term planning and thinking...

    Focus always on what could be and what isnt accessible to the mere impulse and that they cant get around to immediately..



    ESFP

    Same as with the ESTP, though make sure that you speak for the necessity to ignore your personal values (because they are dumb and baseless you tell the ESFP, like everything else they do and they say, use concrete, real life examples to show them why this is true and how stupid they really are at their quiddity..point out past events where they've blundered and were made to pay for it..dwell on memories and unpleasant feelings..dont let them move on to their heart-warming fantasies)..Again hard logic is more important than their feelings...it doesnt matter what you feel or what you are at heart, it only matters how much work you got done


    Ill just be getting to the rest of them at random...

    INFP

    'There aint nothing to it but to do it!"

    "Your feelings dont matter.."

    "I dont care what inner turmoil you're going through grasp your sorry hypersensitive self together and just do as you're told..you think you've got worth.....?..No no..you only have worth after you got something done..you got nothing done..you're worthless..fair and square"

    "Everything in the world had a cause, and it had nothing to do with your fancies"

    "Compassion is base and weak"

    Be critical of everything they say and contradict them just for the sake of disagreeing..be especially intolerant to anything that relates to feelings and focus only on what is logical and could be assessed by conventional TJish standards like points earned..time spent..etc (you're literally the points you earned, the time you spent ..the approval you received..how high in the hierarchy..you are..etc..) Show them that you have no regard for the individual and only for the community and the convention

    INTJ

    Present the off-balance ENTP sort of persona...

    One who is almost always confident in what they say (on the surface)..but always likes to stretch his competence...INTJs as dominant Introverted Intuitors tend to highly value reliable knowledge..and are often uncomfortable sharing what they know because they themselves arent certain of its soundness..so you have to act like you have no regard for how sound your knowledge is..that you'd be willing to share even the most seemingly foundationless and superficial perceptions of the world with everyone you come across just to show how clever you are...

    Act like you're driven to impress ..and again..have no desire to have a long term vision and that you make all of your decisions on the spur of a moment..

    Lead them to believe that you dont care much for bringing order to the world and you're only concerned with appeasing temporary feeling based impulses (Unhealthy SFPish element) and that you cant be counted on to be reliable with anything..whatever decisions you make can be changed within 5 minutes with absolutely no rationale to provide support for your decision with...

    Let them know that you're not concerned with any long term thinking and you're just trying to have fun along the moment..whenever they try to tell you about their thoughts, derail the subject into something mundane and light-hearted (ESPs tend to excell at this)


    ENFP

    Shoot down their ideas before they could even start

    Continue to remind them that their feelings dont matter

    Focus on what is actual and what is evident at first sight rather than what could be...

    Be especially hostile to connections and vehemently dismiss anything they say that relates to the imagination more than to the practical world as pure fancies because it yields no tangible results

    Tell them how much you hate brainstorming..

    Put on attitude of the like..if they say the sky is blue you will say its red..

    Inveigh their flakiness and the need to always stay busy..urge them to settle down and demand that they proceed at life in a more sequential fashion and that they explain, step by step what they have just done and inform you of their plans for the future and demand that they be consistent with what they have just come up with

    Assert that they are not capable of doing anything right at all because they cant finish most things they start..take a conventional SJish attitude and claim that what they do isnt any good because its not complete and they are worthless because they dont see things out to the end..(TJish standard)

    "God damn..it..what the heck is wrong with you..what were you born for..cant you just focus on one thing at a time..? Make a decision and STICK TO IT!"

    INFJ

    Let them know that you're all about the here and now hedonism and have no notion of long term thinking or planning...make it clear that you obviously have no vision...denigrate imagination every chance you get...and insist that attempting to make others happy and emend the world is a futile endeavor

    Assert that those who are seriously trying to change the world are either hypocrites or fools and you dont care for what makes people mad you just like doing and saying things you pull just because they make you happy now..and thats all you know and care for...

    ENFJ

    Attack their personal values every chance you get.

    Ask them to give you advice on personal matters and then apply Ti-ish way of critiquing what they say.

    Make it clear to them that you're rejecting their ideas because they dont make sense, and making sense is all that matters to you, nothing else.

    Point out the ways in which their behavior is self-contradictory and assert that their character lacks integrity because of this.

    Seek out contradictions in everything they say, and give voice to them.

    Focus on ideas that have no practical applications and will not influence how happy people are and are within the province of only ivory tower academia.


    INTP

    Use the word 'feel' as often as possible and make it clear to them that you have not thought through anything that you just said and that the feeling is the basis for all your actions.

    When they ask you 'why' always retort 'because I want you to '..or because 'everybody else is doing it' and display anger at them asking...just for asking obviously...

    Make small talk as often as possible and make it clear that you dont care for their responses its just your social obligation to talk to them and you're not really thinking about what you're doing..you're just doing what you're supposed to do..pester them with your personal questions yet at the same time make it clear that you're not concerned with what they have going on..that you only ask because it feels like a polite thing to do..

    Discourage inviduality and independence of thought, the latter first and foremost. Insist that we need each other and thats because you feel that way, or thats because the authorities say so, they ought to know better than you...and again..keep on answering with 'I feel' to whatever they ask you and flat out refuse to be logical or provide anything that even vaguely resembles a rational explanation.

    Quote scripture as often as possible and assert that this is the word of authority and thats the clincher..no further racionation necessary...get over it..this is what they say..this is how the world works..write this down..memorize it..and be done..."God works in mysterious ways, its not for small minds like yours to ponder"

    Give simplistic accounts for inquiries they make, and put a period there..'This is how the world works"

    Your actions are to be fickle and your decisions unpredictable and they can be changed on whim at any point with you making virtually no effort to appear reasonable or even to humor them and show how what you do or what you say makes sense in the least...and once again..when they ask you to explain your behavior..you just answer ''I felt that way and this it..the rest is none of your business..why do you even bothering asking"

    "Why do you study"

    "Why do you think"

    "Why do you want to be alone,there must be something wrong with you since you want to be alone, Jung himself even once thought that Extroversion was a normal condition and Introversion a neuroticism"

    "What good is thinking, and how can it be practically applied"

    "There is no truth, only subjective opinion"

    "How would you feel if..."

    "Tell me about your day"

    "Hi..how are you..(and keep walking before you hear them answer)"



    ENTP

    Insist that there is only one way to do things and the rest of them are wrong..downright wrong...black and white...

    Shoot their ideas down before they could get started...

    Express rabid hostility for brainstorming and that you just want concrete answers....

    Make it clear to them that you dont care to make sense of your behavior and everything you do is based on a fleeting whim or that its based on arbitrary values that you've memorized over time and will erect as your personal set of teachings to live by...its all fact..and only fact...and no change is valid...

    Keep on reminding them of how stupid they are because they cant memorize anything and thats the only reason why they are stupid, make no attempt at ratiocination when they ask why...just say this is the way it is and its all they need to know..you're definitely not going to use logic to back your answers up because thats the way you feel..and even less waste your time on brainstorming the issue with them...



    ENTJ

    The need for competence does not matter..only the feelings of individuals do...

    Push them hard to make personal value judgments and put their logic aside...

    Deadlines are of relative importance

    Attempt to justify all of your decisions based only on feelings that you have no wish to talk about

    When they initiate a confrontation, just walk away..while sending them hints to leave you alone..be as subtle..indicisive and implicit in communication as possible.

    Nothing is aimed at bringing about closure and every statement you make is necessarily open-ended and serves no purpose that could be ascertained of with standards that could be observed by everyone. (Conventional TJish standards..)

    Thats all folks..let me know about further ideas..

    ISTP

    Be as sentimental in communication as possible and focus on connecting many extraneous ideas into an entity that has little to do with the dicussion at hand.

    Engage them in long theoretical talks in an earnest attempt to get them interested in your ideas, and ignore their attempts at bringing about logical order and critical thought. In short put on a persona of a neurotic ENFJ personality---be abstract and otherworldly in your thinking, maudlin and cloying in communication and be very upset at your ideas being rejected even if its obvious that the ISTP rejected them for entirely impersonal reasons.

    ISFP

    Criticize them every chance you get, even if your criticisms are superficial and not even an NT would see them as something to learn from.

    Accuse them of being soulless because they are short sighted.

    Worthless because they dont click it by conventional standards and arent working because they are too busy having fun.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #2

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    How to agonize BlueWing:

    -Be an SJ.

    ...or merely mention the letters 'SJ' and watch him implode.

  3. #3
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    LOL. I take it, BW, that you are speaking from experience.
    This must be your way of expressing "feelings", because how you "feel" is most important to you.


    Seriously though after reading your post I've determined that every part of my being is focused on annoying the hell out of ISTJ's. So I can at least pat myself on the back. You also give some good tips on how to annoy INTP's, so I can always use those in the future.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Seriously though after reading your post I've determined that every part of my being is focused on annoying the hell out of ISTJ's. So I can at least pat myself on the back.
    I always found ISTJ's *far* too easy to [ant]agonize. To avoid it, I usually just "sober up" a bit when I talk to them, or they start to get a little uptight.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Seriously though after reading your post I've determined that every part of my being is focused on annoying the hell out of ISTJ's. So I can at least pat myself on the back. You also give some good tips on how to annoy INTP's, so I can always use those in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I always found ISTJ's *far* too easy to [ant]agonize. To avoid it, I usually just "sober up" a bit when I talk to them, or they start to get a little uptight.
    with it all "spelled out" like that, it's not so much the realization that 'my entire being is focused' on purposely being their worst nightmare, but that just 'being me' is enough. my response to this realization is, *shrug*.

    i'm sure that helps.

    example (upon hearing i'd been with some friends for a weekend, an SJ [who assumes that i have no friends and never go anywhere simply because i don't call HER or ever accept HER invitations] and i had the following exchange):

    SJ: you look so nice today! i KNEW if you got out with some friends you'd feel better!

    (my mind swirls with thoughts of, "wtf? i feel bad?" ugh, knowing to tackle that one would instigate a long conversation, i instead went with...)

    me: now, HOW exactly did you "know" that?

    SJ: well, i... you look so nice today!

    me: you read way too much into a shower.

    then when her face went all blank, i did the opposite of what she expected... i smiled really big and hugged her (while gently guiding her to the door).

    conclusion: i'd hate me, so why won't she? OH GOD, WHY WON'T SHE?!?

  6. #6
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    me: you read way too much into a shower.
    [snerk!]

    By the way, I realized today after about .003 seconds' reflection that Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes is an ENTP.

    I knew I named my son that for a reason...

  7. #7
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    [snerk!]

    By the way, I realized today after about .003 seconds' reflection that Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes is an ENTP.

    I knew I named my son that for a reason...
    1. aww, so in a way, you named him after you.
    2. yesss, that's it, multiply, MULTIPLY!!

    the above post of mine reminded me of another exchange with a different friend yesterday. one of about seven years.

    upon seeing a shopping bag they had brought by two days before still sitting on my counter unopened:

    SJ: *sigh* you haven't even looked to see what it is.

    me: no, i'm building my character by denying myself.

    SJ: [after talking about the weather and gas prices for a few minutes, pauses, then...] so. you're not even CURIOUS as to what it is?

    me: nope

    SJ: [after a long, obviously painful pause] you're seriously not going to look?

    me: my character's still shaky.

    SJ: in a hundred years, i'll never ever understand you.

    (the bag is still on the counter. it doesn't matter what's in it. however great it is, its twice as good with the effect it's having just sitting there for a while added on to its regular/natural goodness.)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I love playing the neurotic ENFJ to my ISTP j/k. I can however sum up how to piss off an ISTP in one phrase: "You are not saying what you really mean and I KNOW it".
    Last edited by Lookin4theBestNU; 08-02-2007 at 10:22 AM. Reason: the title of this thread is bugging me.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  9. #9
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    upon seeing a shopping bag he'd brought by two days before still sitting on my counter unopened:

    SJ: *sigh* you haven't even looked to see what it is.

    me: no, i'm building my character by denying myself.

    SJ: [after talking about the weather and gas prices for a few minutes, pauses, then...] so. you're not even CURIOUS as to what it is?

    me: nope

    SJ: [after a long, obviously painful pause] you're seriously not going to look?

    me: my character's still shaky.

    SJ: in a hundred years, i'll never ever understand you.

    (the bag is still on the counter. it doesn't matter what's in it. however great it is, its twice as good with the effect it's having just sitting there for a while added on to its regular/natural goodness.)
    My husband and I routinely have conversations like that. It drives him insane that I wont rise to the occasion, as he sees it.

    You want to drive an ISTJ crazy? Start to say something and midway through say "Oh, wait - nevermind!" as though you'd figured it out or answered the question yourself. Then count to five to yourself.

    I suspect it drives him even more crazy when he tries to do that to me, and I say "OK, cool" and show no more interest. <snort>

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  10. #10
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I suspect it drives him even more crazy when he tries to do that to me, and I say "OK, cool" and show no more interest. <snort>
    HA! they do hate that, and like you, i do it too. i even have a look of relief on my face that conveys my thinking, "sweet! i didn't have to do anything!"

    to be fair though, i think it's not just ISTJs who get pissed at that one.

    so... which other types do? i may use this as a screener.

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