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  1. #211
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I can't make this more simple for all of you:

    Take two individuals who are being total fuck ups:
    --The ESFP is the one who is fucking up because they are having too much fun or being too active
    --The ENFP is the one who is fucking up because they are just not too concerned about the future...and swear that they have xyz scheme that will totally fix everything.

    If they arent fuck ups yet, just imagine which category they'd fall into.

    appendix section: take two individuals who you know are ENF, but you aren't sure if they are ENFJ or ENFP:
    --the one who is more ESTP-like at times is ENFJ
    --the one who is more ESFP-like at times is ENFP

  2. #212
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    hmm, i'm not all that concerned about the future either. and think sometimes i can figure my way out of things.. and life isn't some constant party for me. so maybe i'm enfp! although i really doubt it. i'm fairly sure i'm a sensor out of all things.

    i think the esfp partygoer stereotype is just as simplistic as the isfp hippy or artist stereotype. it's almost impossible to live up to those molds.

    i guess i'm just asking if you could be a little more detailed? i'm confused.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I can't make this more simple for all of you:

    Take two individuals who are being total fuck ups:
    --The ESFP is the one who is fucking up because they are having too much fun or being too active
    --The ENFP is the one who is fucking up because they are just not too concerned about the future...and swear that they have xyz scheme that will totally fix everything.

    If they arent fuck ups yet, just imagine which category they'd fall into.
    This is a very biased, unhelpful answer.

  4. #214
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    appendix section: take two individuals who you know are ENF, but you aren't sure if they are ENFJ or ENFP:
    --the one who is more ESTP-like at times is ENFJ
    --the one who is more ESFP-like at times is ENFP
    That makes no sense at all. If the ENFJ is being ESTP-like then the ENFP is analogously being ESTJ-like.

  5. #215
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    i think the esfp partygoer stereotype is just as simplistic as the isfp hippy or artist stereotype. it's almost impossible to live up to those molds.
    "having too much fun or being too active" doesnt have to mean partying. I didnt say partying. It could just be they are waking up, smoking a bowl and watching TV all day. Or they could be completely straight edge and it could mean they are reading a book, going to dinner and then say, "eh, Ill do that hw tomorrow"...

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    This is a very biased, unhelpful answer.
    How is it biased? Typology is a categorization of biases! All I did was highlight the two obvious ones pertaining to EXFP. If you want, we can make a differentiation between ESFJ and ENFJ:
    If two people are being controlling bastards:
    --the ESFJ is obsessively controlling because you aren't fitting into their chosen paradigm of how the world has, does and should work.
    --the ENFJ is obsessively controlling because you aren't fitting into their long term vision of where the current paradigm needs to move towards.

    Now that you understand how we could levy this against any type, how is differentiating EXFP flakiness different than differentiating EXFJ controlling-ness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    That makes no sense at all. If the ENFJ is being ESTP-like then the ENFP is analogously being ESTJ-like.
    You are being too cookie cutter about it. I didnt attackt this as, "lets move up #3 function of the ENFJ and the #3 function of the ENFP".
    I attacked it as, "lets compare the internal judging function of each other", knowing that both can be confused as SP's sometimes...

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post


    How is it biased? Typology is a categorization of biases! All I did was highlight the two obvious ones pertaining to EXFP. If you want, we can make a differentiation between ESFJ and ENFJ:
    If two people are being controlling bastards:
    --the ESFJ is obsessively controlling because you aren't fitting into their chosen paradigm of how the world has, does and should work.
    --the ENFJ is obsessively controlling because you aren't fitting into their long term vision of where the current paradigm needs to move towards.

    Now that you understand how we could levy this against any type, how is differentiating EXFP flakiness different than differentiating EXFJ controlling-ness?
    You said that ESFPs and ENFPs are "fuck ups" or if they aren't fuck ups YET. You're practically trolling.

    I also know for a fact that you dislike ENFPs.

    Don't worry - we dislike you too.

    You are being too cookie cutter about it. I didnt attackt this as, "lets move up #3 function of the ENFJ and the #3 function of the ENFP".
    I attacked it as, "lets compare the internal judging function of each other", knowing that both can be confused as SP's sometimes...

    He's right - it doesn't make sense. Especially since our Te is tertiary and your Ti is inferior, I don't know why you'd "often" test as a Ti-aux.

  7. #217
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    "having too much fun or being too active" doesnt have to mean partying. I didnt say partying. It could just be they are waking up, smoking a bowl and watching TV all day. Or they could be completely straight edge and it could mean they are reading a book, going to dinner and then say, "eh, Ill do that hw tomorrow"...

    Ah... gotcha Makes more sense.


    Personally I'm not offended with the word fuckup. I suppose every type has it's own ways of being one.

  8. #218
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    He's right - it doesn't make sense. Especially since our Te is tertiary and your Ti is inferior, I don't know why you'd "often" test as a Ti-aux.
    I actually feel that tertiary vs inferior is a limited difference. Most people barely have their first two functions working great. The tertiary and inferior are often BOTH sort of together in the basement, or on top in a surprise.

    Also, I never said "test" about anything! Here, I'll explain it this way to you:

    ESTJ archetype is rarely associated with a Te-Ne loop. Everyone thinks of them as being TeSi without a tertiary (not saying this is right, just what Ive noticed).
    ESTP archetype is often associated with a Se-Fe schmoozer loop. Everyone thinks of them as operating this way very often (not saying this is right, just what Ive noticed).

    Therefore, I think a better way of capturing the ENFP using their tertiary is to compare them to an ESFP, and the better way of capturing the ENFJ is to compare them to the ESTP. The sort of superficial surface of the ENFPs I know equates to ESFP, while the superficial surface of ENFJs I know often equates to ESTPs. There is nothing wrong with that! They are both SPs! how is that offensive to be ESFP-like in this instance?

  9. #219
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    You are being too cookie cutter about it. I didnt attackt this as, "lets move up #3 function of the ENFJ and the #3 function of the ENFP".
    I attacked it as, "lets compare the internal judging function of each other", knowing that both can be confused as SP's sometimes...
    Well that's being too left field. It just wouldn't translate to real life. No offense.

  10. #220
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    My ESFP sister has often tested ENFP, because she is not particularly practical and she likes imaginative/creative things (and MBTI tests erroneously equate this with N at times....).

    Many of my ESFP friends are imaginative, creative, and intelligent, and people may think that equals ENFP. The most discernible difference I have noted comes down to two points:

    - ESFPs are often annoyed by theory, the hypothetical and anything that seems to them to be "deep" in a contrived or pretentious way. This does not mean they are not smart enough to grasp it, but they may dismiss it because it is not "real". In contrast, the ENFP often enjoys these things, even if the less intelligent ones only grasp it on a shallow level.

    - ESFPs notice details more, both with visual observances and in what people say. They are in-tune with what is going on around them at the time, both in their personal life and in the world (I notice they tend to follow pop culture more). ENFPs tend to see potential and have a better foresight. What is current is just fodder for ideas, not necessarily important in itself. Sometimes this means their whimsy carries them away, just as sometimes the ESFP fails to see how a situation can go wrong and acts impetuously in the moment.

    - ESFPs tend to seek new experiences and ENFPs seek new ideas/possibilities. Yes, these can cross over, but you have to look for an overall preference and determine the motivations behind the actions.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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