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  1. #11
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Does Fi deconstruct?

    Where are the INFPs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Te describes the external systematic way things work together; emphasis is on "how to make things work" and reaching the desired goal.
    Fe is similar in that sense, except it's focused on social groups/relationships and uses relational principles based on the values inherent in that group or society.

    Ti can "take things apart" sure, but it's focused on the impersonal essence of things -- which might or might not align with the practical realities that Te taps into. Te wants to resolve issues; Ti wants to define them.

    Fi is like Ti, it wants to define the essence of relationships and honor the definitions of particular individuals rather than accessing an externalized ruleset like Fe does. Fe wants everyone to "play well together" and be honored in context of the larger group; Fi is more interested in honoring the individual natures of people within the context of relationships.
    That's backwards definition based on MBTI types, and erroneous.

    Definition is Te, not Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Does Fi deconstruct?

    Where are the INFPs?
    Using N.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I got it four or five years ago.

    It's better not to explain Ti and Fi concisely, because they don't hold up well. I think Jung knew that, hence his love of language.
    I understand your line of reasoning regarding 'holding up well,' but imagine the claim "takes things apart" as a simple conclusion in an inductive argument. Same goes for a deductive argument as well except the aforementioned claim exists as a simple premise. The "takes things apart" defines its purpose on general level - certainly its multifaceted, but again, I'm looking for something general for Fi.

    Ideally, the definition of Fi I seek exhibits the same form Fi [word] [word] [word].
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    I understand your line of reasoning regarding 'holding up well,' but imagine the claim "takes things apart" as a simple conclusion in an inductive argument. Same goes for a deductive argument as well except the aforementioned claim exists as a simple premise. The "takes things apart" defines its purpose on general level - certainly its multifaceted, but again, I'm looking for something general for Fi.

    Ideally, the definition of Fi I seek exhibits the same form Fi [word] [word] [word].
    In all likelyhood, what you're really intending to compare is the mechanisms of INTPs and INFPs, and not Jungian functions. (There's been no valid correlation between the two.)

    Part of me would like to be able to pretend to ignore that, and answer the question based on your notions, but I think it's better to cut our losses with the perverted, intended relationship between Jung and MBTI as soon as possible.

    So I'm discussing the Jungian functions you asked about, and not MBTI types' modes of operation.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Close, but I still think it needs more precision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Ideally, the definition of Fi I seek exhibits the same form Fi [word] [word] [word].
    ...dissects situations personally?


    And yeah, these concepts are pretty difficult to boil down accurately.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    In all likelyhood, what you're really intending to compare is the mechanisms of INTPs and INFPs, and not Jungian functions. (There's been no valid correlation between the two.)

    Part of me would like to be able to pretend to ignore that, and answer the question based on your notions, but I think it's better to cut our losses with the perverted, intended relationship between Jung and MBTI as soon as possible.

    So I'm discussing the Jungian functions you asked about, and not MBTI types' modes of operation.
    Hmm. Consciously, I wasn't aware I blended the two.

    Just to make sure I understand what you mean by the 'mechanism & no correlation' comment, the four function form (Primary, Secondary, Tertiary and Inferior) exhibits flaws. Certainly everyone embodies all eight functions but they're not as clear cut as the model presents itself with? Please enlighten me if I've gone astray.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    ...dissects situations personally?


    And yeah, these concepts are pretty difficult to boil down accurately.
    Better.

    Certainly, I agree with you. I just wanted to challenge everyone to see if we could formulate an answer. In essence, I hope the OP makes everyone think about an answer and I look forward to reading everyone's creative responses. If anything, take this thread as a creative exercise.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Hmm. Consciously, I wasn't aware I blended the two.

    Just to make sure I understand what you mean by the 'mechanism & no correlation' comment, the four function form (Primary, Secondary, Tertiary and Inferior) exhibits flaws. Certainly everyone embodies all eight functions but they're not as clear cut as the model presents itself with? Please enlighten me if I've gone astray.
    Okay, firstly, if one's going to insist on using Jung's functions in a 16-type system with 8-function orders for every type (which is kind of illogical), then I'm on the Socionics side, which has [The INFP equivalent] as Ni-Fe-Si-Te..., I think.

    Secondly, naturally, I'm not on the Socionics side, because I'm not on either side, and Ockam's razor says we shouldn't be using either system.

    So, do you want to talk about Ti and Fi, or what?

  9. #19
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    Fi is a judging function, that organises feelings based on intrapersonal criteria?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Okay, firstly, if one's going to insist on using Jung's functions in a 16-type system with 8-function orders for every type (which is kind of illogical), then I'm on the Socionics side, which has [The INFP equivalent] as Ni-Fe-Si-Te..., I think.

    Secondly, naturally, I'm not on the Socionics side, because I'm not on either side, and Ockam's razor says we shouldn't be using either system.

    So, do you want to talk about Ti and Fi, or what?
    I want everyone to fill in the blank for my analogy as short and concise as possible. See above edit.

    *edit* Added clarification of the OP's intent.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

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