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  1. #21
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Case in point:



    People of all types can and do exhibit these behaviors under stress, and note that this doesn't describe typical ESTP behavior.
    Ah. Maybe I was just being a jerk, then.

    ETA: Maybe not all of it describes typical ESTP behavior, but some of it surely does. The going for the gusto, the impulsivity, wanting to be in the action, liking an element of risk ...

  2. #22
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    But you take it negatively.


  3. #23
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    But you take it negatively.
    It was extremely stressful and very not me.

  4. #24
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ah. Maybe I was just being a jerk, then.

    ETA: Maybe not all of it describes typical ESTP behavior, but some of it surely does. The going for the gusto, the impulsivity, wanting to be in the action, liking an element of risk ...
    And remember; it says "a negative form of ESTP".
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #25
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It was extremely stressful and very not me.
    No, I mean, you take the personality shift in a negative fashion. You take on the traits of that type, but in a negative way.

    For instance, shadow ENFP is:


    • having a gloomy view of a future
    • suggesting impractical ideas
    • acting impulsively, and changing things without any thought
    • having intense negative feelings towards others (though these might not be expressed

    Like I said, it's like pushing down a raging volcano. ENFPs are future oriented making them incredibly optimistic, quick to think up new ideas for the current situation to improve it, spontaneous, and outwardly directed. The shadow ENFP, though, takes those traits and turns them negatively. An ISTJ under the effect of the shadow is pessimistic about the future because they're forcing themselves to be stuck in the moment. Instead of the focus on what's realistic, they start thinking of completely off the wall ideas that completely irrelevant. They also change their minds quickly, run with it and dimiss any practical analysis of their ideas. The negative feelings are usually a result of a desperation to become subject to their feelings.

    When I try to force myself to become more extraverted, I just come off as an ESTJ. If I go grab a coffee with a few shots of espresso, I start to look like an ESTP. There have been many instances where I've come across like an ENFP. Usually the sign of me looking like an ENFP is me being filled with delusions of grandeur.


  6. #26
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    Let's get as scientific as we can here.

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESFJ. Example characteristics are:

    * expressing intense negative emotions towards others
    * being very sensitive to criticism
    * becoming preoccupied with details, without any logical basis
    * interpreting facts or events in a very subjective way

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISFJ. Example characteristics are:

    * being pedantic about unimportant details
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * expressing emotions in an intensive and uncontrolled way
    * being very sensitive to criticism

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESFP. Example characteristics are:

    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * acting very impulsively, perhaps starting off more projects than the INTJ could hope to accomplish
    * expressing emotions in an intensive and uncontrolled way
    * being very sensitive to criticism
    * asking for lots of information that is irrelevant

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISFP. Example characteristics are:

    * withdrawing and wanting to be alone
    * having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed
    * being very sensitive to criticism
    * acting very impulsively, doing things to excess

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTJ. Example characteristics are:

    * being very critical and find fault with almost everything
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * becoming bossy or domineering and ignoring others' feelings
    * being pedantic about unimportant details

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISTJ. Example characteristics are:

    * being pedantic about unimportant details
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
    * taking charge without consideration to others

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTP. Example characteristics are:

    * acting very impulsively, making decisions without thinking them through
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
    * being preoccupied about unimportant details and doing things that have no meaning
    * acting in a very materialistic and selfish way
    * cutting corners, breaking the rules, and even contradicting the INFJ's own values

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISTP. Example characteristics are:

    * being very critical and find fault with almost everything
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * asking for irrelevant information
    * ignoring others' feelings

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENFJ. Example characteristics are:

    * displaying intense feelings towards others, or insisting on things being done without any logical basis
    * being very sensitive to criticism
    * having a gloomy view of the future
    * attributing unrealistic negative meaning to others actions or statements

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INFJ. Example characteristics are:

    * going quiet or withdrawing from people
    * having a gloomy view of the future
    * having intense negative feelings towards others, which may be openly expressed
    * ceasing to adapt to changing circumstances

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are:

    * being very critical and finding fault with almost everything
    * becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings
    * having a very pessimistic view of the future
    * see hidden meanings that are not really there

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTJ. Example characteristics are:

    * go quiet or withdraw from people
    * have a gloomy view of the future
    * openly criticise other people
    * stop adapting to changing circumstances

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENFP. Example characteristics are:

    * having a gloomy view of a future
    * suggesting impractical ideas
    * acting impulsively, and changing things without any thought
    * having intense negative feelings towards others (though these might not be expressed)

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of INFP. Example characteristics are:

    * withdrawing and wanting to be alone
    * having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed
    * being very sensitive to criticism
    * attributing unrealistic negative meaning to others actions or statements

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTP. Example characteristics are:

    * being very intolerant of others who do not act competently
    * suggesting impractical ideas
    * being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
    * having a gloomy view of the future
    * being argumentative

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTP. Example characteristics are:

    * being very critical and finding fault with almost everything
    * having a pessimistic view of the future
    * suggesting ideas that are quite impractical
    * ignoring others' feelings

    Oh look, the types have a lot in common under stress, and this could be the worst example of type differentiation I've ever seen. After careful consideration, I've determined that the above is an example of


  7. #27
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    o_O lol


  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    And the only way the theory would be worth something, and "testable," is if people act like a "normal" member of this shadow type when they are stressed.
    It might be possible to determine whether they've cast aside their dominant functions and are relying instead on their lesser-developed ones.. from a functional analysis standpoint rather than one of pure type. It'd make sense that someone under stress would abandon their normal approach--since they'll believe it isn't working--and subconsciously try something else.

    Exactly which functions those would be, I'm not sure. With regard to the "INFJ under stress" description, it seems that what's described is overengaging Se and completely abandoning Fi.

    I agree that a lot of the "xxxx type under stress" descriptions can be vague and they're not usually very useful or applicable, though. People under stress are even more variable and unpredictable than people are normally, which makes classifying them difficult.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I agree that a lot of the "xxxx type under stress" descriptions can be vague and they're not usually very useful or applicable, though.
    Yes...

    People under stress are even more variable and unpredictable than people are normally, which makes classifying them difficult.
    Yes. Fundamentally, shadow type theory just doesn't have bearing on reality, because when you see someone who is in a bad state, you don't mistype them as their opposite type, you just see the person in a bad state. It's that simple.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Okay - it's becoming more clear. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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