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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    Here's an analogy that occurred to me:

    The inner world of the mind can be seen as similar to the internet, in that data is organised in "webpages" which can be linked in many different ways, or cross-referenced via "weblinks". In this analogy, Ni works in a similar manner to a web browser (such as Internet Explorer).

    To put it another way, one of Ni's functions is to navigate through inner space. In this role it has no specific agenda of its own and remains somewhat detached from the information it unearths. However, its power is awesome! By clicking the mental mouse we can shift our frame of reference entirely, follow a data stream wherever it may lead us, zoom in to examine something in more and more detail, or zoom out to get a bigger and bigger picture.

    There are also drawbacks: for example, just like the Internet, this ability is so entrancing that it is possible to whitter away hours chasing after elusive information or living entirely in an inner fantasy world. (As a dom Ni-type, I plead guilty to both of the above!).

    Taking this analogy one step further, I would postulate that Si also deals primarily with this inner Internet, but in a different role - possibly a sort of curator who manages the data flow, enforces rules and procedures, assigns categories to new information and archives, catalogues and retrieves data. The "search" function may be an example of Si in action.

    Now, I'm not an IT expert, so my analogy could be inaccurate, but it does feel like a good description of the way my own Ni operates. I'd appreciate feedback on this idea (ooer, that's putting my neck on the proverbial chopping block!) :eek:
    Interesting that you see it this way too. I was just thinking about this today and it occurred to me that this is a good representation of it. The way you describe it seems almost exact:
    YouTube - FX from MP

  2. #42
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    I think Ni is a pretty cool guy. eh apprehends the images which arise from the a priori and doesn't afraid of anything.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I think Ni is a pretty cool guy. eh apprehends the images which arise from the a priori and doesn't afraid of anything.
    Fear is for the weak. Or for the scared. :eek:
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

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    Be running up that road,
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    With no problems.

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  4. #44
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    So basicly it all comes down to that no one knows what it is and how to imagine it?


    Now one question For Ni users.

    Is Ni in way preventing you form creating a clear personality traits and opinions?
    (at least from perspective of others)


    It happened to me that someone said "that there are only 2 options" but when I take a look there are already couple more options, which then start to multiply and few seconds after the entire thing comes in contact with my scientific knowledge which is interested in cosmic scales when it comes to space and billions of years when it comes to time. (I am professionaly into geology and amateur when it comes to astronomy)

    So the number of options goes of the scale and everything becomes so complex that it is impossible to verbalize it. But you can understand it without too much problem.
    Because of that I must ignore the big picture and scientific knowledge if I want to make some decision about normal everyday things.

    But because of this I am very reserved in life since I look at everything in way that is too complex and I have to ignore large parts of myself to be able to function in everyday tasks.


    The thing is that I don't make difference between : economy, science, politics, health, my future job, philosophy and everyday activities.
    For me all of this is one and there are no borders between them. (at least for me)

    Because of this my line of thought is pretty much impossble to follow if I don't do something about it.
    So when someone asks "What are your interests?" I am not sure what to say to them to tell them the real truth. That is why I said clear personality traits, since you can't verbalize your actual self. What means that it can be quire hard to show yourself as a person in mental sense.

    It took 90 minutes to type this post, because I wanted to make sure that my words actually describe something.
    But during that time I actually started to understand how problematic this actaully is.
    I could say more but that would make entire thing much less understandable so I will stop here.


    I am sorry if this doesn't make much sense to some people.

  5. #45
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    I think I know what you're saying, and I've written on here before that on 'big' topics, it would take pages and pages to link together all the reasons I have for believing something, and take out any one of those pages, and you're missing an integral link. Like, religion? Forget about it. Not even going to go there (I've gone there, on my own, and I ended up with 80+ pages, and probably could have kept going....). I'd end up writing a novel, pulling in history, science, psychology, sociology, biology, philosophy, blah blah....and I'd pull in all sorts of other subjects because all of those other subjects, and my knowledge/thoughts on those other subjects, impact my ultimate conclusions when it comes to religion. Etc.

    Multiple options/viewpoints. Yes, I have that problem. If not careful, can easily become immobilized because I'm overwhelmed by too much data/too many possibilities.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #46
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    As a non-nj, I completely disregard the scientific and practical relevancy of Ni, and ever other so-called "sub-function". I think the descriptive and scientific validity of MBTI will only be shown to be true for the ENTIRE, cohesive 4 letter type. Ti Te Ne Ni Si Se Fi Fe all have zero capability of truly explaining human behavior and only exist in the beholder's eye.

    "Oh, I dropped that cookie on the floor, my Si Sux0rz!"

    "Damn I can't crack that psyche of the guy at the bar, I wish my Ni was stronger"

    etc, ad nausium

    I could go on and give a big lecture about how the whole is not equal to the summation of separate parts (or in the case of MBTI, the analysis of type XXXX is not equal to the summation of the subfunctions), but I don't feel like it.....

    OMG that must be my Ti not having sufficient reason to perform said behavior!!!!1.....

    Actually, wait, no.... it's because I'm a fuckin' lazy INTP :P

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    As a non-nj, I completely disregard the scientific and practical relevancy of Ni, and ever other so-called "sub-function". I think the descriptive and scientific validity of MBTI will only be shown to be true for the ENTIRE, cohesive 4 letter type. Ti Te Ne Ni Si Se Fi Fe all have zero capability of truly explaining human behavior and only exist in the beholder's eye.
    I must preface everything by stating that I believe MBTI and Jungian cognitive function theory is only a model. But I love talking about models

    But you can look at the difference between the functions' interactions and deduce something about the nature of the individual functions. That's a common exercise in the concept of experimental design, anyway--inferring things about variables in an experiment when you don't have access to them independently.

    I think looking at the individual functions can be practical because, theoretically.. for example, Ni is one way to describe the similarity between ENFJ (FeNi) and ENTJ (TeNi).

    Since the functions aren't working independently in our own cognition, it often makes the concepts behind them hard to describe.. but the interactions themselves are pretty easy. I'd say that ENFJ is easier to describe and digest than Ni is, for example.

    But their inherently fuzzy nature is why we try to solidify concepts like "shadow types" and fail miserably.

  8. #48
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Yeah agreed..... but the "shadow types" is just another reason why I dismiss the subfunctions. It seems silly that you'd have some sort of "dormant" subfunctions that exist in the EXACT same order, except with the I/E inverted....

    It's too convenient. Nothing in nature is that neat. Ordered, Yes, but not neat.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Yeah agreed..... but the "shadow types" is just another reason why I dismiss the subfunctions. It seems silly that you'd have some sort of "dormant" subfunctions that exist in the EXACT same order, except with the I/E inverted....
    That and the fact that every extension of the model has a different ordering for the functions for each type. The only thing they agree on is the fact that one function (either the primary or secondary) must be perceiving and the other judging, and one introverted and one extraverted.

    I can see the first two functions' combination conceptually and practically--and those functions together do define one's type--but I can't readily see how the rest of them play out as any of the models say they should.

    Looking at some of the type descriptions, Socionics' ordering makes the most sense, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    It's too convenient. Nothing in nature is that neat. Ordered, Yes, but not neat.
    As someone who works with models for a living, I agree. Some parts of certain models are useful and valid, and others aren't. Some try to explain way, way too much and so aren't seen as valid overall. It's usually the details, such as shadow functions, that are the least accurate.

  10. #50
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    I think the ultimate Ni band is VNV Nation. Depending on your mindset and the song, they can be deeply epic or deeply cheesy. Ni=epic/cheesy

    [YOUTUBE=oUJ6UMhMguY]VNV Nation- Airships[/YOUTUBE]
    I don't wanna!

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