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  1. #1
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Default Birth Order - Cliff Isaacson

    I ran across this guy's stuff a year or so ago and found it fascinating. He asserts there are 5 birth order personalities:
    Only
    First
    Second
    Third
    Fourth

    Here is my EXTREMELY brief summary of the stuff in the link below:

    The Only learns to play alone without feeling lonely, dislikes intrusion, and can be overly expressive via the positive feedback created by the tantrum.

    Each first born starts as Only and if there is a perceived loss of love by all the transition when the Second arrives, the Only transitions to First and becomes the "good" kid or the performer to win back love.

    The out-performing of the more developed First creates a coping mechanism in the Second to choose perfectionism in certain areas, critiquing others, and suppressing feelings.

    The Third copes with the critical second born by being strong and becoming fearless. The Third who fails becomes fearful.

    The Fourth responds to the rejection of the Third by trying hard.

    The Fifth is ignored by the Fourth and has Only personality...and it starts all over.

    Birth Order Plus - Intro to Birth Order

    I've noticed that Third Born has a high correlation to ENFPs. I think Onlies are more often N. Recently reading an ENFJ thread, there seems to be some correspondence to First traits.

    Partial Thread Tally: (not being updated any more - I couldn't keep up)
    Only
    INTJ,INTP,ENFP,INFJ,ENTP,ISTP,ENFP...(seem to be a majority)
    First
    ENFP,INFJ
    Second
    ENTJ,ISTJ,ESTJ
    Third
    3-ENFP
    Fourth
    Last edited by Erudur; 01-03-2009 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    Well, I'm Third born (and last born as well), and I'm ENFP... basically, description fits me.

    I've had come across more of this stuff on the internet once ago. There are also interesting thoughts on the Last child (not especially the Third) like creative and competitive and so on.. Internet is full of this crap

    My oldest brother is ISTJ, it was pretty tough when we were younger, he was pushing on me every time, and commanded me. Nowadays it's way better, though we won't agree on certain things, we get along pretty good after all.
    Second is ISFP and we have never had a problem getting along.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    I really like Cliff Isaacson's stuff. I read both his books. He's convinced me that the Adlerian First-Middle-Baby perspective is flawed. But I'll see if that changes with my own observation regarding the baby.

    I do know that I wish Isaacson had used MBTI to inform his birth order discussion. Because he'll use descriptions that are very "S" to characterize certain birth order characteristics. And of course, we 20%-of-the-population Ns won't identify with those characteristics.

    I'm hoping this thread will get some traction. Viewers, please leave a post with your MBTI and your natural birth order.

    If you take time to check out the birth order link, also mention if you think that you are a different personality from your natural sibling order.

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm third and last born...
    My oldest brother is an INXP and the peacekeeper in the family
    My youngest brother is an ENTP ( I think), and says he recognizes himself in me, and tells me that I need to keep control of my feelings more. He's loud, critical and pushy and very funny.
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  5. #5
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    The Only learns to play alone without feeling lonely, dislikes intrusion, and can be overly expressive via the positive feedback created by the tantrum.
    I agree with the first half and am not sure I understand the second, bolded half.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #6
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    The second child must cope with the oldest child taking away attention by outperforming him or her. The child feels inadequate, tries to overcome the feeling by choosing perfectionism in some area of life. Also, the second born feels that no one cares about how he or she feels because the oldest child clearly does not. Consequently, to avoid pain the second born tries to suppress his or her own feelings.
    Yeah this pretty much describes me.. perfectionism, fear of inadequacy, and suppressing feelings. Interesting to see it tied to birth order.

    I'm not sure how much those traits are actually tied to my type, since ENTJs are usually more naturally self confident, but I've identified with Enneagram 1 and 3 greatly.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I agree with the first half and am not sure I understand the second, bolded half.
    I believe that I am an Only that didn't transition to First when my younger brother came along. According to Cliff I. that means that my brother is an Only too. I think that fits us. We are/were very imaginative in our playing together, but also had our own separate worlds.

    I was surprised by the tantrum conversation when I first read about it, because as an INTJ, I think I submerge my feelings. But in thinking about it, I realized that I am very expressive of my opinions -- what I like/don't like (my brother is too -- and he is louder than I am, and I think an INFP). After reading that I began to notice that most of the other birth orders are more circumspect in expressing their opinion about something.

    Cliff thinks Onlies announce (blurt) their opinions about things as a result of getting their way when throwing a tantrum (or on the positive side, begging mom and dad for something they really want and getting it).

    Are you an Only?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Yeah this pretty much describes me.. perfectionism, fear of inadequacy, and suppressing feelings. Interesting to see it tied to birth order.

    I'm not sure how much those traits are actually tied to my type, since ENTJs are usually more naturally self confident, but I've identified with Enneagram 1 and 3 greatly.
    I am perplexed by enneagram. I am split between feeling like a 1 and 8, but don't like any of the three wing possibilities.

  9. #9
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erudur View Post
    I believe that I am an Only that didn't transition to First when my younger brother came along. According to Cliff I. that means that my brother is an Only too. I think that fits us. We are/were very imaginative in our playing together, but also had our own separate worlds.

    I was surprised by the tantrum conversation when I first read about it, because as an INTJ, I think I submerge my feelings. But in thinking about it, I realized that I am very expressive of my opinions -- what I like/don't like (my brother is too -- and he is louder than I am, and I think an INFP). After reading that I began to notice that most of the other birth orders are more circumspect in expressing their opinion about something.

    Cliff thinks Onlies announce (blurt) their opinions about things as a result of getting their way when throwing a tantrum (or on the positive side, begging mom and dad for something they really want).

    Are you an Only?
    Ah, it makes sense now.
    And yes, that is true to a good extent, but doesn't work as well, I find, in adult relationships. It was a reliable tool up until then. Now I try to fight the urge - not always successfully.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #10
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    I'm 2nd born (ISTJ).
    Last edited by NewEra; 01-03-2009 at 05:41 PM.

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