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  1. #21
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    No topic with "showdown" in the title should be this boring!
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  2. #22

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    AAAAARRRREEEE YYYYOOOOOUUUU RRRREEEEAAAADDDDDDYYY TOOOO RRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUMMMBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLEEE!!!

    Better?

    To make an analogy with Ti being the purist logic function, Fi is the purist human function. It isn't about how it looks, or effect on society, or acceptability. These are seen as corrupting influences. It just wants to stay true to what is at the core of self and humanity. It isn't rigid or value based either. It is much like Ti in the sense that it is just true to what it is. Ti refuses to compromise logic, Fi refuses to compromise 'the soul' (of anything).
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #23
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The showdown...

    Neither can win, can they? They locate value in completely different arenas. In a showdown the best they can do is negate one another.

    Fi will make Fe cry first. Fe will turn Fi invisible.


  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Fi will make Fe cry first. Fe will turn Fi invisible.
    What?

    (explain! Inquiring minds want to understand! )
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  5. #25
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Sample Size: 1. Don't ask.

    But I'll willingly wildly extrapolate to a whole theory.

    Fi, finding the value in internal harmony, will in principle get pissed and refuse if obliged to play nice with the other kids. (Depending on a few things of course, but most especially if Fi has decided being nice would be fake.) Fe, finding the value in external harmony, will want to see the kids play nice regardless, and will be snide, all the way up to charming, about it, depending on the place of Fe in the function order of the person. But is Fi going to give in? Ergo, Fe cries first.

    And since Fi is about internal harmony there's going to a range of things it won't allow if it figures them fake, and a range of times when it'll stick its heels in and go morose and withdrawn. And Fe will paper over that damn Fi moodiness if it's standing in the way of external harmony. Ergo, invisibled.

    You'd think that Fe would want to address Fi moodiness. But how can it? Fe'll be about external values and Fi's grouchy over something inside. In principle what external thing is going to address the inside imbalance? (A hug at the right time would probably work as a stop gap, but still...)

    For that matter, Fi would like to address Fe moodiness too, but again, how can it? Fi'll be worrying about the other person's insides and that person'll be caring about some external value being violated.

    So who fixes what for the other? In principle, neither.

    Real life will include practical measures--like hugs and earnest listening--that'll tide either party over till the nanobots can pop up and medicate whatever part went wrong, but... y'know?

    Like an extrovert telling an introvert to just get out and meet more people, or an introvert telling an extrovert to sit down and think a bit more. Or something.


    I should include a standard disclaimer whenever I post: "I may be making all this up."

  6. #26
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    Alright, I'll bite.

    Fe is concerned with maintaining externalized harmony. This can be on a scale as large as encompassing an entire society but can be as small as your home environment. (I've found Fe works better on a smaller scale.)

    Most of the time, the type of harmony it is concerned with is interpersonal. Fe seems to be about making some kind of impact - it's usually very active and capable of moving mountains on an emotional level.

    In its healthy state, it's authentic and has the potential to engulf others in its warm, comforting embrace. In its unhealthy or stressed state, it'll steamroll you and overwhelm you with its powerful intensity.

    At least, this is how I experience it.
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  7. #27
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    What is it all about ? No i won't read 2 pages long posts, EVER!
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    It's about Fi being ten times cooler than Fe, Eck. Basically anyway.

  9. #29
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    It's about Fi being ten times cooler than Fe, Eck. Basically anyway.
    oh I have so little F it doesn't matter anyway
    thanks though
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #30
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You'd think that Fe would want to address Fi moodiness. But how can it? Fe'll be about external values and Fi's grouchy over something inside. In principle what external thing is going to address the inside imbalance? (A hug at the right time would probably work as a stop gap, but still...)

    For that matter, Fi would like to address Fe moodiness too, but again, how can it? Fi'll be worrying about the other person's insides and that person'll be caring about some external value being violated.

    So who fixes what for the other? In principle, neither.
    I often see Fi mentioned as concerned with other people's insides, as well as its own. Iwonder how that works. Would an example of this be one person seeing another suffer wrong, and Fe would want to help the person and/or right the wrong, even if the victim wants to let it go (focusing on the external), while Fi would not try to take action if the person doesn't want it (focusing on what's inside). Kind of like watching someone like Charlie Brown take all that abuse from some of the other kids, and while he doesn't like it, he still is able to put up with it, but some of us watching either want to strangle those kids, or wish he would stand up for himself. Someone else watching might say something like "well, he should not stoop down to their level" by fighting back, or whatever, and assume that his inner harmony is more important than gaining outer harmony. (I could never see how people think like that).

    So I'm still wondering how a person's inner harmony can be "violated" by someone else, then. I guess by accusing him of lacking integrity, or something like that. Or is it simply if the other person does something that indicates lack of internal integrity, and that turns the Fi person completely off to him? And NFP's, and especially the ENFPs, are described as being champions of causes. Is this for their own internal harmony, or for the beneficiaries of the causes?
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