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  1. #71
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Introverted Sensing:

    6. Sensation

    Sensation, which in obedience to its whole nature is concerned with the object and the objective stimulus, also undergoes a considerable modification in the introverted attitude. It, too, has a subjective factor, for beside the object sensed there stands a sensing subject, who contributes his subjective disposition to the objective stimulus. In the introverted attitude sensation is definitely based upon the subjective portion of perception. What is meant by this finds its best illustration in the reproduction of objects in art. When, for instance, several painters undertake to paint one and the same landscape, with a sincere attempt to reproduce it faithfully, each painting will none the less differ from the rest, not merely by virtue of a more or less developed ability, but chiefly because of a different vision; there will even appear in some of the paintings a decided psychic variation, both in general mood and in treatment of colour and form. Such qualities betray a more or less influential co-operation of the subjective factor. The subjective factor of sensation is essentially the same as in the other functions already spoken of. It is an unconscious disposition, which alters [p. 499] the sense-perception at its very source, thus depriving it of the character of a purely objective influence. In this case, sensation is related primarily to the subject, and only secondarily to the object. How extraordinarily strong the subjective factor can be is shown most clearly in art. The ascendancy of the subjective factor occasionally achieves a complete suppression of the mere influence of the object; but none the less sensation remains sensation, although it has come to be a perception of the subjective factor, and the effect of the object has sunk to the level of a mere stimulant. Introverted sensation develops in accordance with this subjective direction. A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus. Subjective perception differs remarkably from the objective. It is either not found at all in the object, or, at most, merely suggested by it; it can, however, be similar to the sensation of other men, although not immediately derived from the objective behaviour of things. It does not impress one as a mere product of consciousness -- it is too genuine for that. But it makes a definite psychic impression, since elements of a higher psychic order are perceptible to it. This order, however, does not coincide with the contents of consciousness. It is concerned with presuppositions, or dispositions of the collective unconscious, with mythological images, with primal possibilities of ideas. The character of significance and meaning clings to subjective perception. It says more than the mere image of the object, though naturally only to him for whom the [p. 500] subjective factor has some meaning. To another, a reproduced subjective impression seems to suffer from the defect of possessing insufficient similarity with the object; it seems, therefore, to have failed in its purpose. Subjective sensation apprehends the background of the physical world rather than its surface. The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them. Such a consciousness would see the becoming and the passing of things beside their present and momentary existence, and not only that, but at the same time it would also see that Other, which was before their becoming and will be after their passing hence. To this consciousness the present moment is improbable. This is, of course, only a simile, of which, however, I had need to give some sort of illustration of the peculiar nature of introverted sensation. Introverted sensation conveys an image whose effect is not so much to reproduce the object as to throw over it a wrapping whose lustre is derived from age-old subjective experience and the still unborn future event. Thus, mere sense impression develops into the depth of the meaningful, while extraverted sensation seizes only the momentary and manifest existence of things.

    In case you failed to notice, that doesn't describe the ISxJ.
    I think that the bold parts hint very strongly at how ISJs tend to process reality. It might also be worth noting that it's describing pure Si, not Si with Te or Fe, which is what we usually see.

    I hope you didn't assume that because art was brought in as an illustration, that ISPs were more likely to be artists or something, thus obviously it was off... that would be a poor reason to doubt the description.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think that the bold parts hint very strongly at how ISJs tend process reality. It might also be worth noting that it's describing pure Si, not Si with Te or Fe, which is what we usually see.
    It's obvious to me (and anyone promoting Socionics) that you're forcing it to fit, when it naturally fits the ISxP better.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
    So I was wondering if you guys could give me some example of the differences between Si and Ni.

    I can usually tell Si from Ni by three factors:

    1. Ni - not great around the house Si-always has a toolbox, at least the guys
    2. Ni - interested in language, history, and other things that have nothing do with their jobs, Si -if they're never going to use it, they'll never want to learn it
    3. Ni - will tell you his political views regardless of what you think, Si-only likes to discuss politics in friendly company where conflict is doubtful

  4. #74
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Posts about MBTI vs. Socionics moved here.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #75
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    I can usually tell Si from Ni by three factors:

    1. Ni - not great around the house Si-always has a toolbox, at least the guys
    But not always.

    My INTJ (female) friend is really into home repair and collects power tools.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think that the bold parts hint very strongly at how ISJs tend to process reality. It might also be worth noting that it's describing pure Si, not Si with Te or Fe, which is what we usually see.

    I hope you didn't assume that because art was brought in as an illustration, that ISPs were more likely to be artists or something, thus obviously it was off... that would be a poor reason to doubt the description.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Posts about MBTI vs. Socionics moved here.
    Yes, do go there for the context of the above Athenian post, and more. I bow down before infinite mod wisdom in obliterating dialogues.

  7. #77
    Anamolic Amalgamation Forever's Avatar
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    REVIVE.

    Very interesting examples of Ni and Si used here, people do tell me I can look more melancholy with my eyes, like I won't be sad really (well I can feel it from others which then makes me question whether I am sad or not but not exactly pinpointing where that feeling is coming from).

    I often be in places where I'll imagine funny possibilities of a certain situation if I sit still long enough and if I have a strong concern on what is going to happen very soon, I start losing focus of all reality. Being a cashier, when those events come, people will start looking at me and saying no I don't want that there in that bag and I'm like "How did that get in the bag? (in my head)" and then refocus my efforts in trying to ground myself in the present. However it's primarily Fe related things, it's people-related concerns that start to make reality look well.. unimportant.

    I do tend to focus on theories or learned things to be spoken out of my mouth when I speak of a problem and sometimes the practical concern will come later. It seems like I want to convey the picture of what's going on as my problem as clearly as possible before I help them to start finding a solution, as with most people are like "okay, okay" I think I got it and I get uncomfortable having them to act on little information. Sometimes I tell myself that I need to convey my needs and wants more clearly and precise so it won't be an issue with those people.

    I mean for both Ni and Si dominants, being perceiving oriented it doesn't feel like it's actually happening but it's so automatic in how we view and receive information. I am very focused on the big picture when it comes to anything, especially if it is a difficult task. Heck, even normal tasks, I sometimes wonder if people think I am there just to annoy them since I want to make sure everything is understandable before I proceed. I ask lots of questions to those who I help on my jobs because when something annoys someone, their annoyances are like needles pricking at my face and head. Difficult living with the Ni-Fe combination sometimes, but it can produce wonders and great appreciation to those who feel like they are being valued with the big and small things in life.

    I also too in my family, I care more about how people develop more than just giving practical concerns down to people. It becomes a struggle for me that I need to remind myself that the objective world needs some care too (cleaning and organizing my room, put things where they can be found easily), it's so easy to tell myself that car key will be okay over here, as long as I remember it I can go ahead on with my day, and there are times where I get those moments where it was like I SWEAR IT WAS THERE. There has to be some kind of explanation when in reality, it could've just been pushed away from my other messes while working/looking for something else. Or if I trip over something and the pain is unbearable, suddenly that inanimate object has done something to me personally in a nonsensical way, but now knowing that I can calm myself (sometimes) when things like that happen.

    Well this one of the few threads where I felt like reading just almost every post was something to learn about, yay!

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