The elusive INFJ

[meanlittlechimp]

I agree with Toonia, I think the INFJ is the most mistyped person of all the types. Everytime I hear someone knows one offline, which isn't often, I actively try to meet them, and almost every time, they're not.

Even on the boards, whenever someone says some infj did this or did that, almost always when I find out more, I doubt the person was actually an INFJ. I've read a lot of this here and infpglobalchatter and they often imply they have this controlling or stubborn tendencies, which I highly doubt. I think they're by far the least intellectually arrogant of all the types, by a wide margin.

Most people type by configuring the letters in their head, more F, less E etc, and that's a bad approach. You really have to think about the descriptions, try to look deep into the implications and sketch a complete person mentally, not a cumulation of individual traits or line items. What helps me the most is to know at least 3 or 4 of each type (as well as possible) and try to picture them as the blueprint, even over the literature. When I first got into mbti, I only knew one infj. I spent a lot of time tracking down others just to interact with them enough to understand their type more clearly. I feel the literature is lacking and misleading on analyzing INFJ's in very specific ways - they also mystify the mind reading stuff (which I really think they do have in a sense, but more so with the females). I don't think Keirsey, for instance, understood them fully. There were the hardest type for me to find real life examples of with a close second being the INTJ. I ended up finding 4 of each before I stopped.

I think the majority of the mistyped are actually INTJs, ENFJs, INFPs and ISFJs. One of the difficulties of typing INFJs are that they aren't as outwardly F as the INFP, ENFP or even the ENFJ. They are the least J of all the Js. They are the most T of all the Fs (in my opinion) - which makes typing them even harder. They generally don't let their F affect their judgment. I see them as much of a T as the other T's when it comes to decision making or unbiased assessment of a situation. What makes them F is their desires and motivations, not their execution or analysis.

On top of all that they don't show you what they're thinking, which doesn't help. People expect them to be much sappier and mushier then they really are (they're thinking much darker things than most people realize).

 

[heart]

. I've read a lot of this here and infpglobalchatter and they often imply they have this controlling or stubborn tendencies, which I highly doubt.

My husband tested on the MBTI as INFJ, and he can be very prone to being controlling or stubborn. He can be reached through an appeal to his sense of the golden rule and his compassion, but these traits are there and woe on to the person who ever tries to get him to do something through pressure or threats. He will just dig in for the long haul.

 

[meanlittlechimp]

My husband tested on the MBTI as INFJ, and he can be very prone to being controlling or stubborn. He can be reached through an appeal to his sense of the golden rule and his compassion, but these traits are there and woe on to the person who ever tries to get him to do something through pressure or threats. He will just dig in for the long haul.

So he can't be reached through reason and logic? What about him makes you sure he's an INFJ?

I'm not saying he isn't yet, just want to find out more. What specific things about his screams INFJ to you, besides the controlling stuff.

 

[heart]

Any reason or logic has to appeal to his sense of what's fair or it gets nowhere with him.

This profile is really descriptive of him. The "something is rotten in demark" and the taking the cause of the underdog.

 

[meanlittlechimp]

Any reason or logic has to appeal to his sense of what's fair or it gets nowhere with him.

I guess the thing that mostly "screams" INFJ to me is that is what he got on the MBTI. I trust that he knows himself enough to answer the test.

This profile is really descriptive of him. The "something is rotten in demark" and the taking the cause of the underdog.

Did he read all the profiles in depth? or just read his and said good enough? All the NFs think they can "read" people or have strong "moral" views. Taking the underdog is not just INFJ, it's NFs, NTs, SJs, pretty much everyone. If you polled people and asked them if they root for the underdog, my guess is that it would be well over 50%. I've seen people on these boards that changed their type after talking and thinking about it for years.

Not to say you and your husband is wrong, I'm just not convinced yet.

Can you tell us more about him? Weird quirks about him. What kind of stuff does he get obsessed about? When and how does he show strong emotional reactions typically? What makes him different from everyone else you know who are non INFJs?

 

[heart]

I am not saying my husband is INFJ, I am saying I trust his ability to take the test and give answers about himself. Maybe the issue is with the test not being accurate enough? I just don't know. He took the cognitive functions test and came out highest in Ni. None of the other profiles sounds like him, except for maybe INFP, but his cognitive functions didn't match that.

 

[heart]

I noticed that you link intellectual arrogance with the tendancy to be stubborn. I don't think my husband is arrogant. His stubborness comes from not wanting to be manipulated by someone else's agenda. It isn't that he is arrogant, he has just often seen the point when others have not and he tends to trust himself above the opinions of others. If it is arrogance, then it is arrogance born of experience.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

This is a bit different from the OP, but related to the idea of elusive INFJ-ness.

I have had this problem my entire life of being unresponsive, but inconsistently so. Other times I am deeply responsive. It gets me in so much trouble socially. I understand what the problem is, so it seems like i should be able to just quit. My moments of unresponsiveness are like turning a light switch off. I become really tired, withdrawn, and i 'feel' unable to respond. Well, since this is contrasted with a rather expressive face and interest in people in a deeper way, it reasonably leads to social confusion. I hate it that i hurt people with it. It is all too common for people to eventually express to me that they had trouble reading me or thought i disliked them or something, when nothing could be further from the truth. Even as a teenager people thought i was judging them when my responsive switch was off. Professionally people have gotten offended that i don't compliment more. I suppose this is why people think INFJs are judgmental, cold, and stuff like that.

The horrible irony is that those conclusions make me feel as badly as they do. Those conclusions tend to be the opposite of what is actually going on. It's also rather common for me to become unresponsive towards the very people i admire and like the most. Their conclusions are reasonable based on the data, and i know this. Why is it so hard to fix it?

I can't speak for all INFJs, but for myself, if a person wants to cast a bet, chances are my thoughts are not negative towards you at all. My attitudes towards people tend to be this neutral questioning and examining, even when encountering people who rub me the wrong way or even deserve hate. There is something I do not have inside me to have me respond with a conclusion. My other weakness is to admire other people too much and be left with this assumption of desiring them more than they would ever care for me. Anyway, my social/emotional world tends to be very diffuse, inconclusive, analytical, idealistic, distrusting, but at the same time feeling attachment which i struggle to communicate.

Bleh. There you have it.

 

[heart]

I have had this problem my entire life of being unresponsive, but inconsistently so. Other times I am deeply responsive. It gets me in so much trouble socially. I understand what the problem is, so it seems like i should be able to just quit. My moments of unresponsiveness are like turning a light switch off. I become really tired, withdrawn, and i 'feel' unable to respond. Well, since this is contrasted with a rather expressive face and interest in people in a deeper way, it reasonably leads to social confusion. I hate it that i hurt people with it. It is all too common for people to eventually express to me that they had trouble reading me or thought i disliked them or something, when nothing could be further from the truth. Even as a teenager people thought i was judging them when my responsive switch was off. Professionally people have gotten offended that i don't compliment more. I suppose this is why people think INFJs are judgmental, cold, and stuff like that.

The horrible irony is that those conclusions make me feel as badly as they do. Those conclusions tend to be the opposite of what is actually going on. It's also rather common for me to become unresponsive towards the very people i admire and like the most. Their conclusions are reasonable based on the data, and i know this. Why is it so hard to fix it?

So much of what you say above, with the exception of the facial expression can be applied to me. I had bad teeth as a child and teenager and hateful comments made then have trained me not to be easy about smiling and it is something I struggle with to this day. When I see myself in mirrors, my face looks like I am pissed off or suffering (I do have a lot of physical pain maybe this plays a part) and I am often surpirsed at that because I will have been in a very contented mood.

My ISFP friend is also often taken for being more aloof, cold and uncaring and judgemental than she really is. People think she's ticked off when she's just concentrating or serious minded. She, just like me, hits a brick wall of emotional fatigue and needs time to renew and cannot be expressive at those times.

I can relate so much to the not "feeling able to respond" even though in my heart I have have so much feeling that I want to express, but there is a exhaustion that I just can't get around. The more I feel about something, the less I am able to express and when I feel only mildly about something I am more able to express on it. I think it gives people a false impression of what matters most to me.

Sometimes when I am feeling the most love for a person, I shut down in my outward expression of being able to show it and that hurts me but I cannot seem to overcome it. I am often forced then to show my feelings through actions more than words. Then other times I am a flowing river of expression and it is just something that bubbles up in me and not something I can tap into at will.

 

[cafe]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I just have to digest and regroup in order to respond and I feel guilty about it which only keeps me feeling unable to respond longer. *sigh*

 

[heart]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I just have to digest and regroup in order to respond and I feel guilty about it which only keeps me feeling unable to respond longer. *sigh*

Then if some one pushes, complete emotional lockdown.

 

[TaylorS]

I'd guess INFJs and ISFJs can be best distinguished by where there notions of "what should be" tend to come from. In INFJs the notions of what "should be" tend to come from raw imagination (Ni) while in ISFJs like my mom "what should be" comes from practical life experience and upbringing (Si).

 

[PuddleRiver]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I just have to digest and regroup in order to respond and I feel guilty about it which only keeps me feeling unable to respond longer. *sigh*

Then if some one pushes, complete emotional lockdown.

Yes,yes,yes, that's exactly what I do. I'll feel it eventually...when I know I can deal with it. Like cafe, I have to digest and regroup to be able to respond. Get my s**t together, as it were and like heart says, if somebody pushes, *backing away slowly* emotional shutdown.

I've never understood why.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Anyone out there curious to observe an honest to goodness INFJ character? If you want to see one in action and get a little more feel for how their emotional world operates read/watch Jane Eyre.

Masters of understatement, blanks slates with deep currents, drawing out intimacy through quiet means, a clear sense of values, tenacity, inner strength.

 

[Andy K Octopus]

I think the rarity of INFJ's as opposed to other NF people is overstated. I am most probably an INFJ (although I have none of those fabled pyschic abilities that some sites talk about). I have tested as an INFP also, but I think I am just close to 50-50 (between the last letter) in some respects, but overall I am more of a J type than a P.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'd guess INFJs and ISFJs can be best distinguished by where there notions of "what should be" tend to come from. In INFJs the notions of what "should be" tend to come from raw imagination (Ni) while in ISFJs like my mom "what should be" comes from practical life experience and upbringing (Si).

That sounds like a good way to say it. IxFJs do seem very similar in many ways and behaviors -- it's just where they get their "ideal" from that is the major difference... but it is a major difference!

Yes,yes,yes, that's exactly what I do. I'll feel it eventually...when I know I can deal with it. Like cafe, I have to digest and regroup to be able to respond. Get my s**t together, as it were and like heart says, if somebody pushes, *backing away slowly* emotional shutdown. I've never understood why.

Thank you, all of you, for explaining this ...or at least alerting us to what is going on. It is so counter-intuitive for us to observe ("They closed themselves off to me -- that means they like and respect me???") I don't understand it at all either, but at least now it seems worth more exploration and trying to figure out why the pattern exists at all, and it really helps when trying to communicate.

I always felt cowed and pushed away by many INFxs (J's in particular) because of the "coldness" factor and perhaps it didn't mean at all what I had thought.

 

[faith]

Thinking about the lack of response... I don't know exactly what triggers it. Maybe different things at different times. It seems to come more when I'm emotionally tired, when I feel exhausted inside. Everything does sort of shut down.

I've learned how to express something so that people don't think I hate them, but at those times it's usually just a show. A bright smile put on from the outside, a sympathetic tone. It takes a lot of energy, and I feel very silly and fake, but I do it so they won't feel bad.

If it's someone I love very much, and if they aren't pushing (because pushing does cause a complete shut down), I can sometimes find the current way down deep and bring it to the surface so I can express it. It's unbelievably difficult and exhausting, but if I don't do it I feel like I'm letting them down and not being fair or giving them what they need.

Trying to think how to explain it...

It's kind of like a strong underground stream. At certain times it breaks through the surface in a gushing spring, flowing over everything. At other times you have to bring in the big rig and drill a deep well to access it. If the rig isn't available, or if you don't have the energy to drill, you just have to let it be.

Or...

It's kind of like translating between languages. Things on the inside seem to be in a very different language. Maybe not even in a language at all... (that doesn't make sense, does it?) Anyway, the inside language -- the cinema inside your head where you do all your living -- is so completely different from the language of expression which most people read and understand. Sometimes things are clicking and your brain's in gear and you can translate freely. Other times you just can't find the "words" (i.e. any kind of outward expression) to make it available to others. It feels almost like you forget the language of outward expression. Continuing the metaphor... that's when I pull out the "stock phrases" of cheery smile and sympathetic tone.

I dont' seem to be able to explain this very well; i think i'm rambling. i'd better get back to grading papers.

BTW and FWIW, my closest girl friends have been ISFJs. We seem to get along so well. Shimpei's description was on the money when it comes to how ISFJs complement me and sort of interface between me and the "real world".

p.s. It's not usually that I'm intentionally closing myself off; it's just that I can't seem to find the key to unlock the door. If someone else can do the drilling or unlock the door or translate for me (pick your metaphor), I love it. My INTP is pretty darn good at that, which never ceases to amaze me and sort of bowl me over with gratitude.

 

[Kyrielle]

It's kind of like translating between languages. Things on the inside seem to be in a very different language. Maybe not even in a language at all... (that doesn't make sense, does it?) Anyway, the inside language -- the cinema inside your head where you do all your living -- is so completely different from the language of expression which most people read and understand. Sometimes things are clicking and your brain's in gear and you can translate freely. Other times you just can't find the "words" (i.e. any kind of outward expression) to make it available to others. It feels almost like you forget the language of outward expression. Continuing the metaphor... that's when I pull out the "stock phrases" of cheery smile and sympathetic tone.

I think you got close. That's how it feels for me anyway. And using your analogy, when I forget the language of outward expression, I find a way to externalise the language of inner expression...the only problem is no one understands what I'm saying. All they know is that I'm trying to say something. It makes me feel like I'm retarded when that happens.

I don't use any "stock phrases", though. I just sort of sputter and sigh and do plenty of hand gestures as if I'm starting to explain something, but my brain just short-circuits and I have to use some lesser explanation that isn't what I really mean at all. It feels like the result is something you'd get from an online translator.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I don't use any "stock phrases", though. I just sort of sputter and sigh and do plenty of hand gestures as if I'm starting to explain something, but my brain just short-circuits and I have to use some lesser explanation that isn't what I really mean at all. It feels like the result is something you'd get from an online translator.

I sometimes attempt to mirror the person i interact with. This helps to kick-start a little empathy and helps me focus. When there isn't much inside it tends to be accompanied by guilt which quickens the pace of the shut-down. With extreme shut-down i have to leave the company of others and find a spot in nature.

 

[Kyrielle]

I sometimes attempt to mirror the person i interact with. This helps to kick-start a little empathy and helps me focus. When there isn't much inside it tends to be accompanied by guilt which quickens the pace of the shut-down. With extreme shut-down i have to leave the company of others and find a spot in nature.

That sounds all too familiar. All the more reason to be able to move very silently and quickly and have a working knowledge of all quaint spots.



Have any of you ever wished you had some touch of telepathy, so that you could send the raw thought material to someone directly?