The elusive INFJ

[ptgatsby]

It is just that on two other MBTI type boards, I have seen an INFJ start insisting that other INFJ weren't really INFJ or whatever type they thought they were was not the right one.

Interesting. It seemed to me to be much more of an NT thing recently. I guess that shows the danger, for anyone, in both accepting and projecting a label. Not really that surprising really, it seems like any label can be used, no matter how well intentioned or incidental (see "brown eyed" group).

 

[Mycroft]

I'm definitely in favor of hunting down INFJs.

...That's what we're talking about, right?

 

[prplchknz]

I'm not sure if I'm an INFP but it's the type I feel I relate to the best. Also I'm never sure about anything I like or who I am etc. So maybe some of these people are INFJ and maybe they aren't, you really can't tell someone's true personality types over the internet. Sorry but you can't. On the internet it's easier to be someone your not.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Based on what I have seen, I would say that if a person is asking opinions about their type and wanting feedback about then great give opinions but if they seem comfortable and confident in their type, then it really isn't someone else's place to type them. Since we cannot be in another person's head (and certainly online we don't see the full rounded person), we can't begin to guess if they really are more abstract/theory based OR practical/hands on/fact based or not, so how could we begin to know if they were or weren't really N types? We sort of just have to take their word for how they score on the MBTI.

Just as a funny side-note, when I changed my type to INTJ, i received several PMs explaining why that was wrong. There were even more in thread comments from various posters telling me btw you're not an INTJ. There were a dozen such comments, if not more. I didn't mind much from my friends, but the whole thing was somewhat amusing and totally worth it.

 

[indigo2020]

After reading more information on INFJs, I'm convinced that people are mistyped as INFJs very, very often. Many mistypings are actually ISFJs, and some are ISFPs. Some may even be ISTJs because of their clear-cut sense of right and wrong, and possibly some INTJs for those who are focused on intellectual pursuits.

From readings on this and the INTP forums, everyone and their dog seems to have an INFJ ex and that is pretty unlikely imo. I can see how a person would assume an introverted feeler who is structured or inflexible is an INFJ, but that is not accurate. Their primary function is Ni, which is not women's intuition, but an extremely abstract approach to life. It is a rare type, very private, one of the most conceptual of all the types, etc. There are many introverted feelers who need a great deal of private time, have complex emotions, and a deep sense of altruism. These people are not necessarily INFJs. Most of the quicky tests don't really give reliable results. The INFJ profile on some such sites even uses the word psychic to describe them. That right there will draw in all the introverts who want (or worse think they have) super powers. INFJs are less than 1% of the population and withdrawn, complex, extremely abstract... it's somewhat unlikely the average person will get to know one well, let alone date one. Thoughts? This has just been my impression which could well be flawed.

INFJ

INFJ Profile

I agree, not just because I am an INFJ but because what you say makes sense. I have thought the same thing when I see nearly everyone here saying they know an INFJ. It does not seem like that can be the case.

I also hate that I do feel (even with other INFJ's sometimes) that I have to prove I am an INFJ. I have a hard time explaining it because I am so absract and live on my intuition. I have studied the Myer's-Briggs for 15 years, taken the official test and then other online tests. I wanted to really know for myself what type I am. I have come out other types online (came out INFJ when I took it the first time 15 years ago and a psychologist administered it to me - the official test).

I did not know anything about the Myers-Briggs the first time I took the test so I did not skew anything. I also have learned as I went along. I am psychic but not because I read that INFJ's are sometimes psychic but because I have been psychic since I was a child, thought I was, rarely told anyone or said it jokingly cuz I thought it sounded crazy and weird.

When I read INFJ and when I break down the functions, then look at all the other type descriptions plus break down their functions (and the order) I know I am an INFJ. For an INFJ I think I tend to go more deeply into subjects and analyze more than some other INFJ's. I look like an INTP or an INTJ sometimes. I have scored as each of these types at different times online. I have never scored as any other types.

I know the reason I look like an INTP and like an INTJ sometimes. Is is because I am not a very strong F nor am I a very strong J. I forget the exact percentages. I am also on the line between I and E and P and J. I am a stronger F than those two functions and I am almost entirely N.

I wish people would study this thing more before they talk about it. And it is difficult to type others, no matter how well you think you know them. Have them take the test.

 

[indigo2020]

One percent of the U.S. population is 3 million people. There are lots of INFJ's out there, but they are not all clustered together in the real world. On the internet rare types can group together and seem common, so you should expect to find more online than you would expect to find in RL if you are looking at spots where INFJ's would want to congregate.

Having said that I think you are right in that there is some degree of mistyping of INFJ's. But even if the mistypes were corrected, you should expect to see far more INFJ's on a site like this than you would know if RL.

I had not thought about that. I thought when people said they knew someone who was INFJ that if was a family member, girlfriend, friend outside of the online world, co-workers, etc. Yes, online I think there are definitely a higher percentage of INFJ's. and I think we IN's attract other IN's even in real life. I do know quite a few NF's and NT's in real life (and NF's and NT's together make up only about 15% of the population).

 

[Shimpei]

INFJ and ISFJ are equal in value, both with specific strengths and weaknesses, but they are quite different. Perhaps the reason it seems important to raise this issue is that people don't often understand the infj, and by lumping in a bunch of other types, labeling them as infj, we get this confused mess and a bunch of people assuming they understand a type that they actually have no experience with whatsoever.

My best friend is INFJ, and I'm a strong ISFJ. I've been thinking about our differences and here's what I've found:

The major difference between us is this: I'm not living in my head while she says there's a cinema in her head and there's always something on.

my INFJ, unlike me is really introspective;
awesomely creative in terms of expressing feelings, thoughts, and impressions with words;
much more creative and arty;
she's more reserved than me;
totally lost in this world (needs much hand-holding, not practical or action-oriented in the least);
totally lost in her thoughts, dreamy, self-absorbed, spacey, doesn't seem to notice things around her. She makes me proof-read her writings because she doesn't notice typos and spelling/grammar mistakes;
depression-prone which, I think can be put down to her being a strong IN (probably);
she's prone to feeling like a martyr, agonizing about bad things that happened to her;
prone to being resentful and revengeful.

I think she's not as good at expressing empathy and support as me. (Fe?) I mean she's very empathic but when it comes down to taking actions to help ...
What we have in common is we like to moralize, we are both committed and devoted to our families, we equally like to read ... and much more like sense of humor but it has nothing to do with typology.

Very interesting thread, btw!

 

[heart]

What we have in common is we like to moralize, we are both committed and devoted to our families, we equally like to read ... and much more like sense of humor but it has nothing to do with typology.

That sounds just like me and my ISFx friend. I can't really tell if she is J or P and she got very confused by the questions in those areas of MBTI, she felt she could go either way. When she's been around her critical/controlling parents, she's very J, but the longer she's away from them the more P she is. When we are together we have a lot of fun and laugh and act really, really silly, like junior high school girls and I just don't act like that at all normally and neither does she.

We work pretty good on physical craft sorts of decorating or entertaing projects too. I come up with crazy ideas and she might be uncertain that we could do something like that, but I show her what I mean and then she really takes off on it and makes it work better by sweating details that I have no eye for and adds her own perspective. Or she tells me a great idea she saw or thought of but she can't think of a way to make it affordable and we brainstorm and then off we would go to the dollar or thrift store.

She's really creative but she has no confidence in her powers of creation because of critical people in her upbringing who still control her in many ways through emotional manipulation. I can't tell her how creative and fun she is because she won't hear it, she's got a need to protect the opinions of her family critics...but I don't know if that is type stuff or not.

I had to move away from her and the friendship is harder to keep close by phone because so much of our interaction was situation based...hard for me to put that in the right words, but somehow we shared more the moment to moments of life, doing things for and with each other and on the phone we don't mesh as well. Her ideas are centered around conservative politics and traditional religion and mine are off in left field.

It is sad and neither of us really seem to know what to do about it.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

My best friend is INFJ, and I'm a strong ISFJ. I've been thinking about our differences and here's what I've found...

Thanks for your input, Shimpei. Your post adds an important angle to this discussion.

I am compelled to add that Shimpei is such a woman who could reasonably inspire everyone to go crazy mislabeling themselves as ISFJs. It's her tolerance, level-headedness, consideration, loyalty, insight, and consistency as a person.

 

[Totenkindly]

I am compelled to add that Shimpei is such a woman who could reasonably inspire everyone to go crazy mislabeling themselves as ISFJs. It's her tolerance, level-headedness, consideration, loyalty, insight, and consistency as a person.

Normally such emotional goo would send me frantically searching for a spatula, to clean myself off... but I can't help but happily agree with you here, Toonia.

I know a few other ISFJs like Shimpei, and they all seem to transcend their "stereotypical descriptions," remaining grounded in reality while keeping open-enough spirits to emulate behavior more typically ascribed to N's. Just very very strong, vibrant people.

 

[ptgatsby]

I know a few other ISFJs like Shimpei, and they all seem to transcend their "stereotypical descriptions," remaining grounded in reality while keeping open-enough spirits to emulate behavior more typically ascribed to N's. Just very very strong, vibrant people.

I think... maybe... we call such people... balanced. A rare concept, I know, but there you go!

 

[Totenkindly]

I think... maybe... we call such people... balanced. A rare concept, I know, but there you go!

I think we should create a new theory of personality, with two types:

- Balanced
- Unbalanced

What do you think?

(And since we are both P's, I'm also willing to negotiate with you and create a type called "Sorta Balanced" in-between... where everyone will inevitably be categorized. )

 

[ptgatsby]

I think we should create a new theory of personality, with two types:

- Balanced
- Unbalanced

What do you think?

(And since we are both P's, I'm also willing to negotiate with you and create a type called "Sorta Balanced" in-between... where everyone will inevitably be categorized. )

Oh no you don't. I promised not to break the normal distribution graphs anymore.

 

[Totenkindly]

Oh no you don't. I promised not to break the normal distribution graphs anymore.

<considers carefully, then files post in "Unbalanced" category>

 

[ptgatsby]

<considers carefully, then files post in "Unbalanced" category>

I could of told you that ('INP' being the unbalanced grouping!)

 

[Totenkindly]

I could of told you that ('INP' being the unbalanced grouping!)

At least you are in good company, then. (i.e., MINE! )

 

[heart]

I think we should create a new theory of personality, with two types:

- Balanced
- Unbalanced

What do you think?

(And since we are both P's, I'm also willing to negotiate with you and create a type called "Sorta Balanced" in-between... where everyone will inevitably be categorized. )

Well, this might be a good point. Instead of trying to keep people from talking about any of the negatives of their opposite types, they could instead re-phrase it to say "to me that seemed like an example of NF out of balance" or something like that. I think I have benefited by reading the posts of NTs who felt free on INTPc central to express what they felt was the negative side of NF, I can also see myself at different parts of my life in some of the descriptions.

In my opinion, everyone does not inevitably end up in the sort-balanced category. I am a P but I have relatives who rarely act the balanced form of their types. I know that for some reason people don't like to admit that people can be like that, but it is the way some people are.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Normally such emotional goo would send me frantically searching for a spatula, to clean myself off... but I can't help but happily agree with you here, Toonia.

You really mustn't encourage me like this... picks up handful of goo with a crazed look of glee...

 

[spirilis]

I think we should create a new theory of personality, with two types:

- Balanced
- Unbalanced

What do you think?

(And since we are both P's, I'm also willing to negotiate with you and create a type called "Sorta Balanced" in-between... where everyone will inevitably be categorized. )

My understanding of type and personal development is a vague mix of a lot of what I've read, and from what I understand, it's kind've like this-

1. People who cling to their dominant function and its representative lifestyle while not making any effort to explore outside that mindset tend to become maladaptive, unable to adapt to many situations but possibly excelling in topics they're naturally gifted. By Lenore Thomson's measure, such people tend to show negative aspects of their opposite type, usually without being aware of it.

2. People who explore outside their dominant viewpoint, which Lenore suggests involves a wholesale commitment to the active use of one's secondary function, become more "well-balanced" people who are able to relate to the world and its quirks more positively, while becoming aware of the dangers of their inferior function and their potential to misuse it. I tend to view this as a matter of maturity.

I consider the former an "imbalanced" individual, and the latter a "balanced" individual. I tend to evaluate a person in terms of their type, and then, their level of "balance" as a measure of maturity. I can say with some level of confidence I have seen that people who seem to be immature or imbalanced do tend to exhibit signs of their inferior function in a negative manner. I would consider this another dichotomy to tack onto the end of one's MBTI type.


It has been my personal goal, ever since ~1-2 years into my study of typology, to become one of the latter individuals, and Lenore's advice that I engage Ne as much as possible seems to be working for me. For an INTP, such an act would basically involve "GETTING OUT MORE," and it has helped.

 

[ptgatsby]

It has been my personal goal, ever since ~1-2 years into my study of typology, to become one of the latter individuals, and Lenore's advice that I engage Ne as much as possible seems to be working for me. For an INTP, such an act would basically involve "GETTING OUT MORE," and it has helped.

That was well put! The only thing I'd add is that it may not be as simple as simply using the opposing function...

Every trait has multiple facets. Si can be extremely useful as a way of gathering data - numbers, facts... the accounting stuff. So can Ne, to see the big picture and bring things together.

The problems really lie in dominance within each facet. The reliance on data can make one blind to what the data represents, just as the reliance on the big picture can cause one to ignore that things actually do matter, even the small things that make up the big picture. Unhealthy really shouldn't mean that the other side is absent, IMO, but rather that a facet of the function has taken control. Ne over Ti is just as dangerous as Ne over Si - they both lead to a non-critical look at the world (conspiracy without critical thought vs conspiracy without data).

There is more to to just balance than the degree of preference. Functions need to be channeled together (traits interact, IOW). You can't just work on on being more "F" or being more "Fe". As an INTP, the goal is to learn how to adapt your set of functions to deal with the outside world. In some cases, like small talk, training S-F traits is important, while in other cases, often in philosophy class or something similar, those NF relating traits might be more important. Likewise, in art, you often need multiple traits working together - often some part of Se and N.

Balance here is literal. If you are able to cope other situations, situations that draw upon your weaker functions, you are balanced. If you are heavily avoidant, anxious and/or simply unable to function, you are unbalanced.

(Speaking as someone who has fought for balance on three personality dimensions - not really understood from MBTI - I should also mention that the degree of balance comes from the ability, not from the preference. I'd still rather bury myself in a cave than deal with people... but I'm still able to function and will do so.)