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  1. #71
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Or going around in public with a giant bull's eye painted on your body as you walk naked and scream "Please hurt me!"
    Heh. That too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    I guess other people are speaking of our enthusiasm when they say that.
    I guess. I always thought people considered me a pretty cold fish irl.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #72
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Hmm...Could ramble for quite some time, but I'm going to try to restrain myself.

    I'm new to this forum really, and also new to interaction with other INFJ's. There was much to resonate with. However, since this thread is just about mis-typing INFJ's, I'll try to remain focused.

    In the online MBTI circle I've been part of there has been discussion of mistyped INFJ's, but it has centered more on true INFJ's being mistyped as INFP. Part of the reasoning for why a true INFJ's might mistype as INFP is the IJ issue. The J/P dichotomy is a reflection of whether a type's perceiving function or their judging function is extraverted. In an introverted J type the extraverted function is their auxiliary function. So it is not the core function to their personality. IJ types are really at their core perceivers, unlike an EJ type who would both extravert their judging function and have it as the dominant function of their personality. In addition, it is argued most J descriptions in J vs P choices seem to lay out Te qualities rather than Fe qualities. So someone who extraverts their feeling function would not relate as strongly to a J question that drew heavily on Te qualities.

    I have to admit to agreeing with much of this argument.

    I am also in the opposite situation than that described here of originally not really wanting to be INFJ. I scored midline INFP/J right from the beginning and I admit that my prejudice was toward INFP. It was a bit of a grieving process for me to accept that I was in fact INFJ. I now see the beauty of my type, and following from that myself, but mine was not a situation where I typed INFJ because I aspired to be one.

    Since typing INFJ I have received a few comments questioning my type because people describe experiencing my presentation as "softer" than that of what they believe to be the typical INFJ. I do not know what their typical experience with INFJ's is so perhaps they are among those who have been interacting with people they believed INFJ, but really were not? I don't know. However, when questioned, I am most likely to be placed back as INFP or alternately ISFJ. I had explored the INFP/J issue so thoroughly that I feel fairly comfortable which side of that line I fall on. I did entertain the ISFJ possibility a bit, but each time I explore, it is the Si vs Ni that returns me to INFJ. Si is not a function that describes my experience of the world well at all. The main thing I relate to in ISFJ descriptions is a desire to serve and please others. But I don't believe that is an alien desire to an INFJ either.

    Anyway, I'm enjoying very much reading the thoughts and experiences of other INFJ's and am glad to be here.
    Last edited by tovlo; 09-17-2007 at 06:46 AM.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  3. #73
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    Hullo, n00b here. I like like like this thread so it can have my forum virginity. =]

    I believe I'm an INFJ and I don't need personality test results to confirm a (recent actually!) discovery of THE defining "A-HA moment" of my self-concept so far. The symbolism I now see in those four letters.. impacted me like synchronicity. I subsequently read a whole heap of profiles and could not identify myself with any other type at all. INFP was close in some aspects, but just not the true me.

    Heck, there will always be sceptics 'cause how would I go about proving it? I guess if someone were to be all like 'yeah right', I'd like to see you try to get to know me. Although my best friend/platonic soul mate undoubtedly knows a lot, I always feel she doesn't know enough. No one does and that's a real struggle for me, no matter how satisfying it can be.
    Other than that, my proclaimed integrity itself is the mystery. Sorry but I have no key; I am it. :S

  4. #74
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I see them as much of a T as the other T's when it comes to decision making or unbiased assessment of a situation. What makes them F is their desires and motivations, not their execution or analysis.
    Thank you, it is very refreshing to see this noticed and pointed out! I don't know how many others think this accurate, but it's spot on for me. I went through a stage of thinking I was INTJ because of the way F is defined, but in the F/T deciders on tests (which I think have a highly imperfect, almost coincidental association with the official definitions but are more valid) I relate much more strongly to the F and the kind of people who score as Fs.

    I'm very much aware of how I feel all the time. Even if neutral, I wonder why, and am by now skilled at manipulating my mind back into a joyous state. While I enjoy subjects like science with little or no connection to subjective experience, people or relationships, about 97% of my 'free dream' time, and 100% of my writing hobby is focused on those things. Character is much more important to me than plot, with the exception of those in short vague fables and extended social analogies like 'The Ones Who Walked Away'; I guess due to Ni. The only person I know with as much time and patience for social outcasts as I have is (or appears) ENFJ.

    Yet the idea of ever acting on feelings that I know conflict with logic is completely foreign. I consistently feel like doing whatever I reason is right. Whenever I've reasoned that a former opinion was illogical or ill-informed, my feelings naturally change in accordance. If it's such a heavily socially conditioned feeling that this transition is slow, I have faith enough in the logical structure of morality that I'll go with the new line of thought while waiting.

    As an example, I believe patriotism and many forms of supposed loyalty are just society's ways of disguising immorality and making selfishness and open egotism more emotionally palatable. That's un-Fe on more than one level, but if I don't want to be merely the sum of my instinctual parts, it doesn't bother me to throw out some unwanted evolutionary baggage. Other aspects of my Fe are no weaker or less valued for it.

  5. #75
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    For a long time I was fairly certain that I was either an INFJ or an INTJ, but that was only based off the Keirsey sorter and other on-line tests. Only recently have I begun to see that INFP (or possibly INTP) seems more probable for me.

    In my desire to understand others, I find it frustrating that so many people seem to be mistyped. If I judge someone at face value on what type they say they are, I could easily be getting a false impression and treating them as they "say" they want to be treated even if the real self for them is someone else that would want different things but not admit or know it. It seems discourteous to me to questions someones decision about their type, but if I don't then I don't know if they actually put any effort into it (reading multiple type descriptions and trying to understand the synergy of the letter type system) or if they simply took one (or even a bunch with how inaccurate they are) test, read the description they liked and said "ya, thats me". If I have genuine concern for someone and my interactions with them, I feel an obligation to make my own observations of them over time and come to a type (or at least one of the 4 temperament types) conclusion of my own for them.

    At least for my own benefit, I've found it helpful to contemplate the cognitive processes and try to see which ones I either do automatically or with little effort and which ones are either difficult for me to understand and/or practice.

    I reached the conclusion that either Fi or Ni is my dominant function, and that I also have some aptitude with Ne (even though I still struggle to differentiate it from Ni and don't think I use it quite as often, but maybe more automatically/subconsciously) but my Fi seems to directly conflict with Fe values.

    Up until my teens, I was fairly socially complacent and was content with "moral/social values" and tried to live my life in accordance with them thinking it was the right thing to do. Eventually I reached a point where I found myself being torn between "what I thought was right" and "what society says is right" and reached the conclusion that I have to do what feels right to me. If the values of society match then great, but if they don't then they loose their value to me and as I understand it, this seems like a pretty clear defining point between Fi (personal values) and Fe (values of society). Granted, this may be an issue that does not come up often, but I spent enough time struggling with the decision that its one that means a lot to me and was a sort of crossroads in my self-perceived development that influenced who I became after that. From that point on I made the decision to listen to and trust my heart and when I stray from that and trust either logic or society, thats when I have my regrets and have to answer to my conscience, but when I follow my heart, even if the results get me in trouble, its very rare for me to feel any guilt from it because I know I did what I thought was right. I don't really have a quantified value system, I just evaluate each situation as it comes along against whether it "feels right" to me or not (I think that would be Fi working with Ne and Si (all syntonic traits of INFP)). My primary concern is for the feelings of others (and my own). What matters to me is what impact my words or actions will have on another person and their feelings. Fe will also be concerned with the feeling of others, but they will be equally or more concerned with the impact of their actions on social values/impact. The Fe may appear to be more caring tho, because they will be motivated to extrovert their feelings whereas the Fi will be content to internalize their feelings and let them be the basis for their decisions. (at least if my understanding of the cognitive processes is correct).

    Even though all signs seem to point to me being INFP, these are still a few things I'm having a hard time reconciling with that.

    I do feel a "need for progress", that is to say when I have a goal I need to feel like I'm getting closer to it over time. Thats supposed to be an INFJ trait, whereas INFPs supposedly are more relaxed and not as concerned with results as they are with the process of how one gets there. There are times where I don't have any goals and in those times, I do match the relaxed just see what happens approach.

    INFPs supposedly love brainstorming, but if I try to do in consciously or I'm in a work environment where I'm supposed to to it on demand, I find it an uncomfortable experience and usually just have a blank mind. Now ideas can and will pop into my head seemingly at random, but trying to focus on it just doesn't work well for me.

    From what little I've observed here so far, I feel like I relate better to the words and perspectives of those self identifying as INTP than INFP or anyone else (but I haven't jumped into the type specific boards yet either, and it may just be that INTPs are more active posters). (but I strongly relate to the values of NF whereas the NT stuff I only partly see in myself)

    I could probably find a few toher inconsitancies if I tried, but those are the ones that stand out and give me the most doubts.

  6. #76
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    TenebreousReflection: Fi is actually the one that creates an internal value system based on what the person thinks is right. Fe usually reacts to the Feelings as they come. INFJ's aren't usually the most concerned about social values... I adhere to them to convey my good will, but if they asked me to do something I thought was wrong, I probably wouldn't.

    Let's try another question, then. Do you sort of perceive feelings by looking at or imagining a situation, and trying to picture what you would do, or is it like you have this strong, visceral sense of right and wrong that you don't even need to imagine the situation or think about the other people's feelings to understand?

    Also, are you an organized, punctual person? Are you good at making decisions? Do you wait until the last minute to do something?

  7. #77
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    TenebreousReflection: Fi is actually the one that creates an internal value system based on what the person thinks is right. Fe usually reacts to the Feelings as they come. INFJ's aren't usually the most concerned about social values... I adhere to them to convey my good will, but if they asked me to do something I thought was wrong, I probably wouldn't.

    Let's try another question, then. Do you sort of perceive feelings by looking at or imagining a situation, and trying to picture what you would do, or is it like you have this strong, visceral sense of right and wrong that you don't even need to imagine the situation or think about the other people's feelings to understand?
    When I think about it a bit more, there are a few things I do strongly believe that could be a "value system" of sorts, but they are more generic ideas like the importance of "freedom", "individuality", "honesty/authenticity" and "love".

    If I'm imagining something that has not yet occurred, then I evaluate the situation and ask myself what I think the right thing to do would be (when I imagine a scenario, I usually get a feeling rsponse from it that helps guide me), but also weigh that against the results that might occur for doing it.

    If I'm responding to something in the present, then how I feel tends to be pretty clear. Its like I just know that "this is what feels like the right thing to do" and its usually an overpowering feeling. I do reflect on the feelings and try to figure out why I feel so strongly and sometimes try to rationalize the feelings, but sometimes I'll have already took action before I do that. Its usually these feelings that create the goals that I feel a strong need to pursue.

    In more complicated scenarios, I know that I need to be very cautious and tactful in how I follow through to avoid causing misunderstandings that could harm or even ruin relationships and sometimes I cant think of any way to do what I think is right that would not have the risk of longterm damage to a friendship and have to wait and hope a time will come when I can follow through on what I feel I should do. When I feel like I'm treading on emotionally dangerous ground, I try to be as organized and detailed as possible with the intent of minimizing misunderstanding and sometimes go so far as trying to detach myself from the situation and describe things objectively to make my point in a more rational way. FWIW, most of these involve me feeling like I should "express my true feelings (authenticity)" when I know its "inappropriate" to do so.

    I'm not concerned with what society will think, but I am very concerned how my views would be seen by the friends that my thoughts and feelings relate to.

    Also, are you an organized, punctual person? Are you good at making decisions? Do you wait until the last minute to do something?
    I let clutter accumulate (somewhat organized clutter, like stacks of like items, but I just put them wherever there happens to be room) until it reaches a point where its hard to find stuff, then I go through and try to apply some structure to it and go back to letting new clutter accumulate.

    I'm very rarely late, and very rarely "on time". I 'm nearly always early because I like to have a buffer for things to go wrong and take corrective action if needed.

    Trivial decisions (most work related stuff), its easy for me to just trust my intuition and go with the first thing that comes to mind.

    Decisions that could have a longterm impact. Unless its one of those "my heart tells me to do this" instant decisions, I agonize over decisions and gather as much information as possible to be sure I'm making an informed decision and unless somewhere along the process I get a moment where everything seems to click together and the answer becomes clear ("oh, duh, how could I have even considered anythgin else"), I second guess my decisions quite often until I see how they play out. I feel like I should trust my intuition more since I nearly always reach the same conclusion as my first guess, but its hard for me to do on important matters.

    If its something I don't want to do, then I will procrastinate till the last minute. If its something I want to do, I usually take immediate action.

  8. #78
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNFJiminy View Post
    Thank you, it is very refreshing to see this noticed and pointed out! I don't know how many others think this accurate, but it's spot on for me. I went through a stage of thinking I was INTJ because of the way F is defined, but in the F/T deciders on tests (which I think have a highly imperfect, almost coincidental association with the official definitions but are more valid) I relate much more strongly to the F and the kind of people who score as Fs.
    *nods* I notice a lot of INFJs on this forum, myself included, are like that. Some of my classmates who has heard about MBTI (mostly NTs) thought I'm an NT as well. INTJ to be exact, even though I know very well I'm an F. I think it's the almost continual insistence to understand something fully and to accurately describe ideas that make it seem Tish. Although I cannot say if all INFJs are this way, or only the Ti inclined ones frequent this forum. Some people in INFJ forums/mailing lists are certainly not like that... but I'm not sure if they are correctly typed.

  9. #79
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I think it's the almost continual insistence to understand something fully and to accurately describe ideas that make it seem Tish.
    Me too. That, and my repeated assertions that everyone should either completely disregard or thoroughly question their initial feelings about any particular issue before coming to a conclusion. And how in that context I disparage feelings as one of humanity's two most significant defects.

    Maybe it's because we analyse our own emotions and their place in everything, as extensively and objectively as an NT analyses but with the focus on and awareness of feelings of an F.

    Either that, or...

    Do Ts like Jiminy Cricket?

  10. #80
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I am Jiminy Flippin' Cricket. When I was a kid I was in high demand because parents wanted their kids to hang out with me. I was considered a good influence.

    I cannot stand Pinocchio. He put his dad through Hades because he just would not listen.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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