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  1. #61
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    After reading more information on INFJs, I'm convinced that people are mistyped as INFJs very, very often. Many mistypings are actually ISFJs, and some are ISFPs. Some may even be ISTJs because of their clear-cut sense of right and wrong, and possibly some INTJs for those who are focused on intellectual pursuits.

    From readings on this and the INTP forums, everyone and their dog seems to have an INFJ ex and that is pretty unlikely imo. I can see how a person would assume an introverted feeler who is structured or inflexible is an INFJ, but that is not accurate. Their primary function is Ni, which is not women's intuition, but an extremely abstract approach to life. It is a rare type, very private, one of the most conceptual of all the types, etc. There are many introverted feelers who need a great deal of private time, have complex emotions, and a deep sense of altruism. These people are not necessarily INFJs. Most of the quicky tests don't really give reliable results. The INFJ profile on some such sites even uses the word psychic to describe them. That right there will draw in all the introverts who want (or worse think they have) super powers. INFJs are less than 1% of the population and withdrawn, complex, extremely abstract... it's somewhat unlikely the average person will get to know one well, let alone date one. Thoughts? This has just been my impression which could well be flawed.

    INFJ

    INFJ Profile
    Field Dependence.

    This is what disturbs.
    The ENFJs are not field dependent. To say nothing of the other Ns.

    The MBTI does not employ the L scale.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    ...I find a way to externalise the language of inner expression...the only problem is no one understands what I'm saying. All they know is that I'm trying to say something. It makes me feel like I'm retarded when that happens.
    Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Gosh, I know exactly what you're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Have any of you ever wished you had some touch of telepathy, so that you could send the raw thought material to someone directly?
    Again: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

  3. #63
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    It's very meaningful to read how these posts resonate beyond their words.

    That drive to communicate what is so intangible i think is what has motivated me as a composer. Even there i work towards a goal with the full knowledge i will fall short. Still, the process of getting closer and closer is a strong motivator. The arts are a useful tool for this because rather that using arbitrary symbols, like words, that mean something quite different to each person, the arts attempt to recreate experience. It possesses the abstract and intangible elements in more concrete terms. When someone else can enter the experience of the work you have created, that is a rare moment in which the isolation is warmed. Physical intimacy, for all its simplicity also eases this ache.

    Possibly for the reasons mentioned above and other circumstances, i have mostly resigned myself to a sense of isolation. There is a continual background ache of separation and loss, a persistent nostalgia, a feeling of never enough. I think that is what draws me to the stars and the ocean. Vastness provides a sense of embrace. I realize I am engulfed in something greater than that which eludes my internal grasp.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #64
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Here's another discrepancy between myself and what people impose on me and infj's in general:

    People will talk about infj's being 'judgmental', and yet my brain is hardwired to resist this sort of thinking that is being imposed by that assumption. It isn't a value or a moral, it is simply that my brain does not allow me to draw conclusions about people. The best i can do is hypothesize, or draw up various percentages of likelihoods for various scenarios and explanations of their behavior. I have occasionally jumped in earnestly with people when i see a likely outcome of hurt that the other person does not appear to see. Still, in such scenarios i cannot determine motivation absolutely. On one level it isn't even relevant, just the behavior at hand. That is the closest to judgment i can come. I have also run away from people who hurt me in the past, but that is ironically enough, because i know i will reexamine and remain open to not judging them, and therefore am at greater risk of future hurt. I run away sometimes because i 'can't' judge conclusively.

    It has to do with having respect for the depth of complexities of a person. Looking at a person is like looking at an ocean. You can feel a certain intensity of the waves, see surface patterns that repeat in somewhat predictable, however subtlety nuanced, ways. You get a general feeling about the person that can't be put into words. There isn't a certain category of anything that they are, they just 'are'.

    I watch arguments between people online or irl and jump between the participants in my mind, first seeing one angle then the other. It is somewhat disorienting and tiring, but something i am driven to do. It's automatic. It also makes it difficult to argue, because either during or after the conflict, i will experience through their eyes best as my information and perceptions will allow. There are certain debates in which the other person 'wants' to hear the dissenting voice. It is fairly easy for me to get a feel for these and i will participate because it is an extension of my own internal debate. Also, it is a good feeling to connect with someone in this way. It is a unique form of intimacy.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I watch arguments between people online or irl and jump between the participants in my mind, first seeing one angle then the other. It is somewhat disorienting and tiring, but something i am driven to do. It's automatic. It also makes it difficult to argue, because either during or after the conflict, i will experience through their eyes best as my information and perceptions will allow. There are certain debates in which the other person 'wants' to hear the dissenting voice. It is fairly easy for me to get a feel for these and i will participate because it is an extension of my own internal debate. Also, it is a good feeling to connect with someone in this way. It is a unique form of intimacy.
    I quoted the above portion because I have a similar propensity to see things through other people's eyes, and thus not be able to debate very well (unless, as you say, they obviously want me to disagree and debate).

    I'm not sure I experience it the same way you do, but the world to me seems very full of possibilities. Sometimes it's difficult for me to see which "what if" is more possible than the others, so I don't feel I can come to an absolutely certain decision. The Ts I know are much better at this than I. I think I often lack perspective as to which possibility is more likely.

    For me, the "judging" part reveals itself in the fact that I like to be prepared for things. I don't like to fly by the seat of my pants. I want to know in advance. I want to read a book about how to do something rather than try to figure it out as I go. If I tell you I will or won't do something, then that's the end of the matter and you may be certain of what I said--and I expect the same thing from others.

  6. #66

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    Do any of you notice any visible differences between male and female INFJ behavior or tendencies?

  7. #67
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Do any of you notice any visible differences between male and female INFJ behavior or tendencies?
    This is just an observation from my online interactions, and it's just a generalization, but male INFJs strike me as being more J than many of the female INFJs I've encountered.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #68
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    I'm just responding to the last page, here, and I'll admit that first.

    Toonia and faith are far better people than I - I admit openly to a judgmental streak, which I don't like about myself. I know that other people are complex, but I tend to first jump to a judgment, and then get mad at myself for doing it. Later, I'll sit around thinking about that judgment, thinking about their pasts and what might have led to my judgment, and try to amend it. Toonia's ocean analogy resonated, but I never get to that step until after I've judged; that happens later when I'm alone. Still, that doesn't make it go away. I'd love to learn how to bypass that first step!

    But I do always forgive them, and keep going back, thinking, oh, they aren't SO bad. And then I judge again, forgive again, go back. It's a nasty cycle.

    And I do see everyone's point of view in an argument, and if it's dispassionate, that's useful. But if it's emotionally charged, or I have a reason to argue, I can ignore that knowledge in favor of my irrational belief that I'm totally right.

    So perhaps I am not an INFJ. I am open to the possibility, especially as I really didn't like the "psychic" nonsense in the profiles. But then, maybe it's all natural variation.....

  9. #69
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I am just not getting the "INFJs are so emotional" thing. I keep the vast majority of my emotions private. Going around showing them all the time would, to me, be the equivalent of going around in public naked. The thought makes me shudder.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #70
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I am just not getting the "INFJs are so emotional" thing. I keep the vast majority of my emotions private. Going around showing them all the time would, to me, be the equivalent of going around in public naked. The thought makes me shudder.
    Or going around in public with a giant bull's eye painted on your body as you walk naked and scream "Please hurt me!"

    I guess other people are speaking of our enthusiasm when they say that.

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