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  1. #81
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    However you are predicting traits from a series of questions. The only difference is you get to choose whether you are correct or not. Based on many years of posting on the forums, it's quite apparent that most get it wrong initially.
    Dude.

    I'm totally on Jack's side here.

    Would you think MBTI was valid if your type was determined by something random that has nothing to do with your personality?

    Like, if the number of hairs on your head the day you are born has a remainder of 1 when divided by 16, you're an ENFP. Remainder 2, you're an ENTP. Remainder 3, you're an INFP. Remainder 4, you're an INTP...etc.

    This is exactly what astrology is like.

    Just because people "get it wrong initially" doesn't mean it's the same as astrology. That makes no sense at all.

    The reason MBTI works is that it's based on observations about a person's tendencies. It makes inferences about behavioral tendencies from data about behavioral tendencies. It stays in its own realm.

    Astrology takes some random unrelated shit and makes inferences about behavioral tendencies. It's not even close to the same idea. At all.

    Am I missing something here? This is incredibly obvious.

  2. #82
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post

    Am I missing something here? This is incredibly obvious.
    The only problem is that it's only incredibly obvious to most people; and the few people who can't see it as immediately obvious won't (can't?) listen to logic anyway, so you're wasting your time.

    As for me, I think unicorns bring children to their mother's womb, and your personality is determined by the colour of the unicorn's coat. No no, I don't want to hear any of your arguments, you clearly don't understand how it works. Spend a few years researching unicorns, then you'll understand (and if you don't, you just haven't studied enough, of course).

  3. #83
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    The only problem is that it's only incredibly obvious to most people; and the few people who can't see it as immediately obvious won't (can't?) listen to logic anyway, so you're wasting your time.

    As for me, I think unicorns bring children to their mother's womb, and your personality is determined by the colour of the unicorn's coat. No no, I don't want to hear any of your arguments, you clearly don't understand how it works. Spend a few years researching unicorns, then you'll understand (and if you don't, you just haven't studied enough, of course).
    High five!

  4. #84
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    The reason MBTI works is that it's based on observations about a person's tendencies. It makes inferences about behavioral tendencies from data about behavioral tendencies.
    I haven't been able to find even one peer review journal in which this data has been published.

  5. #85
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I haven't been able to find even one peer review journal in which this data has been published.
    Why do you care so much about other people's opinions?

    If you actually tried to think about MBTI instead of trying to shoot it down in little loops of confirmation bias, maybe you'd be surprised.

    Try to prove yourself wrong. Think of the best arguments you could possibly make if you took the opposite stance of your beliefs. Proving yourself right is easy.

  6. #86
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    Like, if the number of hairs on your head the day you are born has a remainder of 1 when divided by 16, you're an ENFP. Remainder 2, you're an ENTP. Remainder 3, you're an INFP. Remainder 4, you're an INTP...etc.
    haha . I was born bold, a fine leo that is ! -.-
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #87
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    Why do you care so much about other people's opinions?

    If you actually tried to think about MBTI instead of trying to shoot it down in little loops of confirmation bias, maybe you'd be surprised.

    Try to prove yourself wrong. Think of the best arguments you could possibly make if you took the opposite stance of your beliefs. Proving yourself right is easy.
    Look mate, you and all your conformist friends are claiming that MBTI is a valid and reliable personality test.

    I have taken you at your word and sought for evidence of this in the peer reviewed literature.

    And so far I have found no evidence.

    If you have such evidence, now is the time to tell us the name and number of the journal, as well as the title of the article.

    However finding no evidence myself, I looked back into the history of MBTI and found it is plagerised from the book, "Personality Types", by Carl Jung.

    And reading the book I found no evidence whatsoever.

    So I reasonably conclude that MBTI is taken on blind trust.

    And it turns out MBTI is an article of belief in the New Age Movement.

    Does any of this matter? Yes, because MBTI reifies the personality.

    MBTI psychologically prepares us to be commodities in the consumer market.

    MBTI is a well thought out and executed attack on human dignity.

  8. #88
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    The magazine, "Cosmopolitan", has a Horoscope Special.

    Buy it and find out what the Universe has in store for you in 2009!

    And don't tell me I don't have your best interests at heart.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    I've never been able to find much (ok, anything) supporting MBTI either, actually. It seems to be more of a hypothesis that's never been tested well than any sort of theory.

    As for astrology, it'd be a joke to even call that a hypothesis. Spirituality, I guess.

  10. #90
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Look mate, you and all your conformist friends are claiming that MBTI is a valid and reliable personality test.
    Aha! Emotion.

    Anyway, please don't lump me in with those "conformists". I could call you a conformist skeptic.

    Listen, "peer reviews" and yadda yadda don't mean anything to me, since I know the MBTI as written by Myers and Briggs is full of shit. But there are good pieces there that can be brought together cohesively. It's not about predicting behaviors or whatever, its about describing behaviors. (I've made this argument to you before, but you seem not to have listened.)

    The words Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, Intuition, Introversion, Extroversion, Perceiving, and Judging are just categories like any other. I'll use a metaphor -- you could label each animal you see with its exact species name, or you can group some together and call them dogs, or make larger groups called canines, or larger groups called mammals, or larger groups called animals, etc. Same idea with modes of cognition. You could label each different mode of cognition (you need 6 billion labels) or you can group some parts of cognition together (Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, Intuition), or you can make larger groupings (Perceiving, Judging), or you can just say Cognition (the sum of Perceiving and Judging), etc.

    It's nice sometimes to use larger groupings, because it just takes less time. If you need to go into more detail than the words allow, well, use more specific words. You don't have to use cognitive functions for everything.

    You can talk about people that tend to favor certain functions the same way you can talk about people that tend to favor anything.

    They're just words, man.

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