User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 105

  1. #41
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I know why they consider it as pseudoscience. It's because it's unfalsifiable. I do study psychology. Is it a belief system? Only if you call a categorical system as a belief system. It's not the same as what astrology is claiming though. Arbitrary dividing something into groups is one thing, assuming there's a correlation between one pattern with another is another.
    Just look at the father of MBTI, the guru Carl Jung.

    He wrote, "Personality Types", without any evidence whatsoever.

    And he wrote, "Personality Types", to complement Somatic Types.

    You no longer believe in Somatic Types, so why believe in Personality Types?

  2. #42
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Just look at the father of MBTI, the guru Carl Jung.

    He wrote, "Personality Types", without any evidence whatsoever.

    And he wrote, "Personality Types", to complement Somatic Types.

    You no longer believe in Somatic Types, so why believe in Personality Types?
    Honestly, I don't care at all who started the theory. It could have been anyone; some schizophrenic, whatever. Completely irrelevant.

    The only thing that's relevant is whether or not I find it useful. And I do.

    The bullshit parts, I throw out. It's the Evan system of typology, not the MBTI.

  3. #43
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Just look at the father of MBTI, the guru Carl Jung.

    He wrote, "Personality Types", without any evidence whatsoever.

    And he wrote, "Personality Types", to complement Somatic Types.

    You no longer believe in Somatic Types, so why believe in Personality Types?
    It's not a believe though, it's a workable model. Personality in people is like the spectrum of a rainbow, continuous. Yet people like to divide up the rainbow into distinct colors... red, orange, yellow... Why? Because that's just how our minds work. We like categories... No different than MBTI. A simplified model to describe personality. Yes, it's far too simplistic, but it's as good a starting point as any.

    Believe me, if they can find a way of applying the Big 5 to describe motive and behavior of people I'll use that as a model. But they haven't. In fact they can't because everybody is placed on a slide rule. A point on a ruler isn't very good for making predictions. To make a decision, we must impose a cut-off. Big 5 doesn't tell us where to make that cut-off. MBTI does, that's why I use it as a starting point. But after a while, even that breaks down. The system is too complex to be explained by a simple model.

  4. #44
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    Honestly, I don't care at all who started the theory. It could have been anyone; some schizophrenic, whatever. Completely irrelevant.

    The only thing that's relevant is whether or not I find it useful. And I do.

    The bullshit parts, I throw out. It's the Evan system of typology, not the MBTI.
    If Evan can have his own system of typology, then Victor can have his own system of typology.

    You can have your own system of belief, and I can have my own system of belief.

    But E=MC2 no matter what Evan believes or even what Victor believes.

    Can you believe that?

  5. #45
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If Evan can have his own system of typology, then Victor can have his own system of typology.

    You can have your own system of belief, and I can have my own system of belief.

    But E=MC2 no matter what Evan believes or even what Victor believes.

    Can you believe that?
    No... E=MC^2 only applies for this universe. At least that's what those "crazy" string theorists indicate... although the work they're doing is approaching the limits of scientific reasoning and into the realm of speculations.

    It's like saying the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. This only holds true in normal space... Take it to the surface of a sphere and it breaks down. Or 1+1 = 2 and not 10? It's circumstantial.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    "The only thing that's relevant is whether or not I find it useful. And I do."

    Exactly, exactly. The measure is, "Does it work?" not "Is it logical?"

    Nightning, the fact that elements of your chart contradict each other does not disprove the validity of the information. It shows that you are not internally consistent at all times. It shows the different ways in which you use your different energies and where they might conflict. It shows that you don't understand what you're reading (which is pretty nigh impossible anyway, the way it is being presented). The great art of astrology is synthesis, it calls for a high level synthesis, which is not possible from a computer report. The computer report lists the individual elements without synthesizing.

    Venus in Scorpio means that Venus was in Scorpio when you were born. It means that you are possessive and intense, you demand a great deal of loyalty and you tend not to forgive if you don't get it. You may use your sexuality as a way to bind your mate to you. You do not take affairs of the heart lightly. You like intensity and high contrast in art and music.

    If that doesn't fit it, it either means that you are very young and don't know your own Venus nature yet, or, more likely, that you were given the wrong birth time, OR that you have something else in your chart that ameliorates your Venus to a great degree, although that is a hard Venus to get to lighten up. (I have it, too.)

  7. #47
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If Evan can have his own system of typology, then Victor can have his own system of typology.

    You can have your own system of belief, and I can have my own system of belief.

    But E=MC2 no matter what Evan believes or even what Victor believes.

    Can you believe that?
    Yeah.

    I just have a problem with you being so anti-MBTI when you haven't even tried to learn the theory and build your own.

    I take offense because you have no way of even understanding the ideas I have about the system, and yet you dismiss them as if I'm some kind of idiot.

    You condescend to all of us, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

    And when people bring up valid points against you, you quote the evidence of others instead of coming up with your own points...AND, your quotes are irrelevant half the time, because, again, you don't know what you're talking about, and you don't listen to the arguments against you.

    You are NOT enlightened. You just won't let yourself see anything valid about the system, especially now that you've essentially defined yourself as someone who blanket-ly doesn't "believe" in MBTI (a silly way to think about it anyway). It would create so much dissonance for you to even consider the possibility of some validity to the system at this point, that you're basically a lost cause.


    At least stop talking about MBTI, because you really don't know anything, and the more you say, the less you're open to thinking about.

    As "open-minded" as you claim to be, you're one of the most clear cases of intense confirmation bias on the forum.

  8. #48
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Exactly, exactly. The measure is, "Does it work?" not "Is it logical?"

    Nightning, the fact that elements of your chart contradict each other does not disprove the validity of the information. It shows that you are not internally consistent at all times. It shows the different ways in which you use your different energies and where they might conflict. It shows that you don't understand what you're reading (which is pretty nigh impossible anyway, the way it is being presented). The great art of astrology is synthesis, it calls for a high level synthesis, which is not possible from a computer report. The computer report lists the individual elements without synthesizing.

    Venus in Scorpio means that Venus was in Scorpio when you were born. It means that you are possessive and intense, you demand a great deal of loyalty and you tend not to forgive if you don't get it.

    If that doesn't fit it, it either means that you are very young and don't know your own Venus nature yet, or, more likely, that you were given the wrong birth time, OR that you have something else in your chart that ameliorates your Venus to a great degree, although that is a hard Venus to get to lighten up. (I have it, too.)
    Measurement is whether it works? Well it depends on how you define that system doesn't it? Let's just say for now I'll go with your definition. Whether it works... the answer for me is no. And no sensible person reading my description will say it works for them. Because it's lacks internal consistency.

    "Nightning, the fact that elements of your chart contradict each other does not disprove the validity of the information."
    This is a very bad flaw. A person is sometimes A and other times B? You might as well say if a person is not a introvert he must be an extrovert. Or rather at times he's quiet and if he's not being quiet, he's being loud. What does that explain? Nothing. Even the ignoramus me can tell you that.

    "It means that you are possessive and intense, you demand a great deal of loyalty and you tend not to forgive if you don't get it. "
    I think it's safe to say most people consider themselves as loyal... and if people cross them, they get upset. Possessive and intense, I'll give those to you.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    If that doesn't fit it, it either means that you are very young and don't know your own Venus nature yet, or, more likely, that you were given the wrong birth time, OR that you have something else in your chart that ameliorates your Venus to a great degree, although that is a hard Venus to get to lighten up. (I have it, too.)
    Or maybe, and I know that I'm going out on a limb here, it means that when you were born has no influence on your personality.

  10. #50
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    I just have a problem with you being so anti-MBTI when you haven't even tried to learn the theory and build your own.

    You are NOT enlightened. You just won't let yourself see anything valid about the system, especially now that you've essentially defined yourself as someone who blanket-ly doesn't "believe" in MBTI (a silly way to think about it anyway). It would create so much dissonance for you to even consider the possibility of some validity to the system at this point, that you're basically a lost cause.


    At least stop talking about MBTI, because you really don't know anything, and the more you say, the less you're open to thinking about.
    This I disagree with. Victor has tried to understand MBTI and has come to his conclusions that it's of little use to him. And for that he is enlightened.

    Disagree once again with your and his interpretation that MBTI is a believe. It's not... just a model. If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't that's okay too.

    Relate it back to astrology... is astrology a model? No, I can't see it as such. The basic premise is you as a person is correlated to the movement of the planets because of this, you can learn about your personality through the position of these heavenly bodies. There is your causality. Because there's a correlation, then this follows... The correlation has never been demonstrated though... no matter how many times people looked at it. Nor can we find a rationale for such correlation to exists. That's my biggest pet peeve with astrology.

Similar Threads

  1. [Multiple Systems] INFJs of Different Zodiac Signs | Astrology and the MBTI
    By Jetta in forum Other Personality Systems
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2017, 12:52 PM
  2. The President, Astrology, and MBTI
    By Mole in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-22-2016, 11:31 PM
  3. Astrology and the Astrolabe
    By Mole in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-24-2015, 02:07 AM
  4. The Connection between Astrology and "Messiahs"
    By SecondBest in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-02-2010, 04:13 AM
  5. Typing the US and England
    By Xander in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-29-2008, 07:45 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO