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  1. #1
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Default Extroverted Feeling and passion

    Much props to Eric B. for this website. I'm reading some stuff that was percolating in my mind but I hadn't cemented but that this site elaborates on quite well.

    Reading the essays started me to think about extroverted feeling and intimacy. Those who use Fe as a conscious process (FJs and TPs) how does Fe express it's depth of feeling? When people refer intensity and passion of feeling on the forum, it's usually something that people think is in the domain of Fi. Like Fi is the fervor of feeling, but Fe is a Hallmark card: sentimental and appropriate but nothing really spectacular. Fond, but not in love.

    I also find that Fe has this motherly connotation attached to it that deprives it of sexuality and sensuality, which I know can't be right but I rarely really hear of people discussing Fe in that light. Fe is warm and cuddly, but not fiery or vigorous. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

    This isn't really contained to FJs and TPs but I would like to know what Fe intensity looks like. I'm wondering if in the end, you can't really tell Fe intensity from Fi intensity.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  2. #2
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Hmm, My mother is an Fe dom, (ESFJ), and her love and fervent feeling is the furthest thing from the phony, fluff that you'd find in a hallmark card.

    I don't think she is a fair representation of the type, but from what I have experienced, witnessed and observed first hand from years upon years of living with her is that she feels both intensely and quite deeply, almost to an extreme.

    My mother can't conceal her emotions for shit, as in she literally lacks the capacity to do so.

    In this respect, she is like an emotional open book.

    Her emotional intensity can be disarming at times, especially when she is pissed. :horor:

    But her emotional states often reflect the way she feels about those she loves, and shows, or proves just how much she cares about those she loves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm wondering if in the end, you can't really tell Fe intensity from Fi intensity.
    I theorize, of course, that the e and i components of every function are needlessly divided, and it is merely the common persuasion of the individual which provides for their being understood (incorrectly) as subject or object oriented. An extrovert, seeking out more interpersonal contact, and being more open, will display use of his or her Feeling function more readily.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I also find that Fe has this motherly connotation attached to it that deprives it of sexuality and sensuality, which I know can't be right but I rarely really hear of people discussing Fe in that light. Fe is warm and cuddly, but not fiery or vigorous. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.
    Growing up with a parent with an extraordinary amount of Fe, I can say that Fe is both warm and cuddly and fiery and vigorous. The intensity certainly had it's ups and downs.

    I think Fe's depth of feeling is felt when it is directed toward someone or something. Even when I'm alone and I feel strongly about something, it is usually concerning another person or object.

    I also find Fe is really hard to contain. I have a hard time hiding how I'm feeling, especially if it's unusually intense. I know that if I try to hold back my emotions over an extended period of time, it ends up causing me enormous stress.

    I'm not sure how Fi types express their feelings, but I'm assuming it's not in an intrusive way? I wish I understood Fi better - it's definitely subtle and at times confusing to me.
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    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I'm not sure how Fi types express their feelings, but I'm assuming it's not in an intrusive way? I wish I understood Fi better - it's definitely subtle and at times confusing to me.
    wait until you are doing something stupid and that cloud of content turns into a thunderous voice of reason.
    Its action oriented....it also seeks to extract instead of impose its intensity.
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  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Hmm, My mother is an Fe dom, (ESFJ), and her love and fervent feeling is the furthest thing from the phony, fluff that you'd find in a hallmark card.

    I don't think she is a fair representation of the type, but from what I have experienced, witnessed and observed first hand from years upon years of living with her is that she feels both intensely and quite deeply, almost to an extreme.

    My mother can't conceal her emotions for shit, as in she literally lacks the capacity to do so.

    In this respect, she is like an emotional open book.

    Her emotional intensity can be disarming at times, especially when she is pissed. :horor:

    But her emotional states often reflect the way she feels about those she loves, and shows, or proves just how much she cares about those she loves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Growing up with a parent with an extraordinary amount of Fe, I can say that Fe is both warm and cuddly and fiery and vigorous. The intensity certainly had it's ups and downs.
    Ditto, the wifey.

    I think Fe's depth of feeling is felt when it is directed toward someone or something. Even when I'm alone and I feel strongly about something, it is usually concerning another person or object.
    Even with the simplified definitions of "value system (things evaluated as good or bad) based on external/internal standards" or "focused on the object/subject", it is still difficult to sort out where the stadard of a feeling really lies. It seems like those two definitions (the standard, and the focus) can possibly not be lined up. I do see Fi types described as having these strong feelings concerning another person or object, but what makes the Feeling "introverted" is the 'standard', or as BlueWing put it, "the subjective emotional filter they process the information through". I'm still trying to understand this "filter", and that discussion ended afterward.
    It sounds almost as if they start out with strong emotions, and then just find events to fit into the feeling.
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    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Even with the simplified definitions of "value system (things evaluated as good or bad) based on external/internal standards" or "focused on the object/subject", it is still difficult to sort out where the stadard of a feeling really lies. It seems like those two definitions (the standard, and the focus) can possibly not be lined up. I do see Fi types described as having these strong feelings concerning another person or object, but what makes the Feeling "introverted" is the 'standard', or as BlueWing put it, "the subjective emotional filter they process the information through". I'm still trying to understand this "filter", and that discussion ended afterward.
    It sounds almost as if they start out with strong emotions, and then just find events to fit into the feeling.
    When I describe Fe, I don't think I'm describing attributes that are exclusive to Fe. Actually, I think Fi and Fe have a great deal in common, they are are just manifested differently. Too many times people attribute qualities to functions that they believe are "exclusive" to the introverted or extroverted side.

    I'm not sure what to take from Bluewing's posts on feeling functions. Looking at some of the nonsense he's posted lately on the NF boards, I'm skeptical that he truly understands how feeling functions work.

    Here's what Jung describes as depth of Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung
    But a change comes over the picture when the importance of the object reaches a still higher level. Such an assimilation of subject to object then occurs as almost completely to engulf the subject of feeling. Feeling loses its personal character -- it becomes feeling per se; it almost seems as though the [p. 450] personality were wholly dissolved in the feeling of the moment.
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  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    BlueWing was drawing heavily from Jung, at least in the discussions I'm thinking about (I know he can mix some of his own issues in there). "Subjective filter" sounds like it may have been one of those things derived from Jung. I'll have to look again, and see if he mentions and discusses it.

    Again, otherwise, yes the two attitides of the functions will be very similar, overall.

    For some reason, Jung's archaic looking style of speech just makes it hard for me to grasp what he's saying, but in that last quote, he's saying it's about the importance of the object being higher than the subject. I don't quite get "engulf the subject of feeling". But for it to "lose its personal character"; I can recognize in reacting to something that doesn't affect or stir me up personally, yet there is a strong sense of wrong, based on an external standard. So then, Fi, whatever they are upset about, it is like a personal offense. I imagine this might pertain to the "subjective filter", but it would still be nice to have it spelled out more. This raises the question about FJ and especially TP types rarely being personally offended about anything (which does not seem accurate for FJ's, yet is almost a stereotype for TP's, but still is likely overhyped), and how much personal offenses can be attributed to shadow Fi.
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    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    I experience the "depth" of my Fe as an intense subjective connection with the emotions and sentiments of others, using our society's standards of social interaction as an objective scaffold (objective in the sense that it is based on unspoken common agreement and expectation and not my subjective whim) to hold the connection together. This connection creates a concern about the well-being of others and a desire to aid others.
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